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No Clapping, Dancing at Mass, Vatican to Warn
Reuters ^ | Tue, Sep 23, 2003 | Philip Pullella

Posted on 09/23/2003 7:50:20 AM PDT by presidio9

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.

Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.

According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.

The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.

If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.

According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."

The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.

Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.

Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.

The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."

Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.

Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.

The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.

The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.

It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.

Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.

"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.


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KEYWORDS: catholiclist
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To: Aliska
There is only one reality. It is neither yours, nor mine; it is God's. We all have to deal with it the way it is, not the way we want it to be.

Correcting a misstatement isn't putting someone down, it's correcting a misstatement.

You, for example, seem to think that the male Priesthood is evidence of sexism in the Church. I think it is God's Will, in accord with the way in which He created us male and female.

That's not putting you down, nor is it refusing to hear you. It is disagreeing with you.

441 posted on 09/23/2003 12:15:40 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: Desdemona
tee hee
442 posted on 09/23/2003 12:15:49 PM PDT by My back yard ("We (at NBC) all hope and pray that Saddam escaped harm, and hopefully fled to Syria.")
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To: SoothingDave
A building set apart for the service of God is not "just a building."

Yes, it is "just a building."

Do you then not favor laws against the desecration of churches?

No. Vandalism is unlawful, period.

Is burning down a crack house the moral or legal equivalent of burning down a church?

Well, if arson is the reason, then the law treats them equally. But you and I know that a church and a crackhouse are in no way the same.


443 posted on 09/23/2003 12:16:22 PM PDT by rdb3 (I write my life; you write what you've seen in gangsta moviez)
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To: presidio9
I disagree. Porn is a corruptor if ever there was one. If the priest cannot be discreet enough to refrain from that vice, then he deserves any whistle that gets blown.

Victimless sin, like victimless crime is a ridiculous idea.
444 posted on 09/23/2003 12:16:44 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Their name is Legion, for they are many...)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Not that you would know that, just as you don't understand a "joyful noise" doesn't have to be a Hootenanny.

Make all of the assumptions you like. But praise is praise.

Is He not worthy of being praised?


445 posted on 09/23/2003 12:18:12 PM PDT by rdb3 (I write my life; you write what you've seen in gangsta moviez)
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To: .45MAN
the following week he stood at the door and turned people away who were not dressed to meet Jesus

Wow! Great story.

446 posted on 09/23/2003 12:18:40 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aliska
So really, you have a problem with God. Or am I misunderstanding you?
447 posted on 09/23/2003 12:18:54 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Their name is Legion, for they are many...)
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To: SoothingDave
It has little to do with my applecart. It has much to do with the way Jesus established His Church and the way the Church will forever be.

If you were a woman, how would you feel hearing that over and over? No matter what the rationale behind it all, it makes me feel bad and not as good as the men and I do not believe I am alone in feeling that way.

448 posted on 09/23/2003 12:19:06 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Antoninus
You might be interested to know that your tag line is also a conservative Catholic web site;...

In Hoc Signo Vinces...('In This Sign You will Conquer'...Constantine's shield)

Traditional apologetics based on early Councils and Encyclicals.

449 posted on 09/23/2003 12:19:26 PM PDT by harbingr (BVM warned us @ Fatima...)
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To: rdb3
Applause that "distracts from worhip and praise of God?" Hmmm...

Many, including me, have explained exactly what type of applause we are talking about. Why is it difficult to understand?

SD

450 posted on 09/23/2003 12:21:16 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Aliska
No matter what the rationale behind it all, it makes me feel bad and not as good as the men and I do not believe I am alone in feeling that way.

That is not a Biblical teaching. According to God's Word, men and women are absolutely equal. He has assigned different tasks; but one is no more noble or important than the other.

451 posted on 09/23/2003 12:21:35 PM PDT by Skooz (All Hail the Mighty Kansas City Chiefs)
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To: Aquinasfan
C'mon, that was THEN, this is NOW. Everyone knows Jesus was a right wing racist sexist homophobe.
452 posted on 09/23/2003 12:21:37 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Their name is Legion, for they are many...)
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To: Skooz
Your post seems to presuppose that all are.

No that's what the "are you saved?" people think. If you just "accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior" you're in.

453 posted on 09/23/2003 12:22:44 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: presidio9
Too bad but makes sense.
454 posted on 09/23/2003 12:22:53 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: ArrogantBustard
You, for example, seem to think that the male Priesthood is evidence of sexism in the Church. I think it is God's Will, in accord with the way in which He created us male and female.

I think that a male prieshood where they think and act like they are superior to women is not God's will. They aren't really supposed to associate with women like me. How am I aupposed to take that?

455 posted on 09/23/2003 12:22:58 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: TradicalRC
Again, not to encourage it, but the poster was offering up the pornography incident as an example of corruption in the parish on the level of sexual attacks. Sorry, but it's just not the same thing. Again, I am not comfortable with a priest having a pornography equation, but I do not equate him to a pedophile.
456 posted on 09/23/2003 12:23:02 PM PDT by presidio9 (If [the French] are providing passports, I’m going to ask for Pellegrino)
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To: rdb3
Well, if arson is the reason, then the law treats them equally.

No, actually there are special laws against desecrating churches that do not apply to crack houses. Some of us in society do distingush one building from another.

But you and I know that a church and a crackhouse are in no way the same.

You just said they were. "A building is just a building."

Either a structure dedicated for the use of God's people in worship and other ways is different, or it is not. Which is it?

SD

457 posted on 09/23/2003 12:23:41 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: TradicalRC; presidio9
Victimless sin, like victimless crime is a ridiculous idea.

Besides that, it's not victimless. A priest who is filling his mind and soul with pornography is probably unable to give the congregation entrusted to him by Our Lord the sort of spiritual direction they deserve.

458 posted on 09/23/2003 12:23:41 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: harbingr
You might be interested to know that your tag line is also a conservative Catholic web site;...

It is also the school motto of Holy Cross College.

459 posted on 09/23/2003 12:24:58 PM PDT by presidio9 (If [the French] are providing passports, I’m going to ask for Pellegrino)
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To: maryz
Thanks so much for the memories! I'm going to print out the song and revel in nostalgia. I'm glad to hear that in some parishes the May crowning is still carried out. Thanks, again.
460 posted on 09/23/2003 12:26:05 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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