No Clapping, Dancing at Mass, Vatican to Warn

Reuters ^ | Tue, Sep 23, 2003 | Philip Pullella

[presidio9]

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.

Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.

According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.

The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.

If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.

According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."

The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.

Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.

Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.

The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."

Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.

Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.

The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.

The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.

It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.

Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.

"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.

[Clemenza]

Here's how it goes:

Once upon a time (our setting could be Italy in 1850 or Mexico in 1950), people lived in large families that worked the farms they owned or as migratory labor for others. Young men who wanted to escape this lifestyle and receive some education often joined the preisthood. There was also prestige for the celrgy in a largely rural peasent society.

As more people in the underdeveloped world moved to the cities, however, there were more opportunites and their outlook on life changed. The old "peasent cultures" have essentially died or are in the process of dying in Latin America, just as they are in Europe.

The Vatican better start setting up more seminaries in Africa if they want more priests.

[ArrogantBustard]

I see. You are ashamed of attempting to make a filthy joke. Good. The sense of shame means your conscience isn't completely gone.

[presidio9]

and too many have endorsed the abuse of children by priests

For the life of me, I can not understand how a professed Catholic could even THINK such a thing, much less say it. You are long overdue for a heartfelt conversation with your pastor.

[Phantom Lord]

To say that there was not a "silent endorsement" of what was happening as evidenced by DECADES of silence, denial, and ignoring what was happening is to ignore reality.

[JohnnyZ]

Thank goodness. I have a personal rule against clapping withing 150 yards of a church.

[JNB]

Actually Latin America has never been a large source of vocations, and the Bishops in Latin America depended on Priests from Europe, but in the last 15 years, the number of seminarians in Latin America has gone up dramatically.

As for vocations in the devloped world, the traditional religous orders have to turn men away for lack of space.

[presidio9]

To say that there was not a "silent endorsement" of what was happening as evidenced by DECADES of silence, denial, and ignoring what was happening is to ignore reality.

This is just nonsense. Incidently, when was the last time you went to Mass? You seem to be pretty out of touch with what is going on in your Church.

[annyokie]

We had a number of African Priests at my parish in Pittsburgh.

[rdb3]

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic.

Psalms 66:1 - Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands:

Psalms 81:1 - Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob.

Psalms 95:1 - O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Psalms 95:2 - Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Psalms 98:4 - Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.

Psalms 98:6 - With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.

Psalms 100:1 - Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.

---

Sounds as if a lot of the Psalms are thrown out here.

[ArrogantBustard]

My daughter is an "altar girl"
I'm very sorry to learn that.

They can't get enough boys to serve
Man hating feminist out-of-habit "sisters" don't want to get boys to serve.

girls are more punctual and reliable
Garbage.

Wonder what else will be coming out of the Vatican.
All manner of good things. Offering the Mass according to the rubrics? Putting Tabernacles back in the center of the Sanctuary where they belong? An end to the army of "eucharistic ministers"? A correct and complete translation of the Order of the Mass?

One can hope.

[JohnnyZ]

withing = within

I also passed it along to my catechism students. :)

[Blzbba]

I don't understand why the Vatican and some traditional Catholics are so afraid of altar girls either.

It's either fear, ignorance, or a sense of overblown importance. Altar girls are harmless modernizations of the Mass and nothing more.

The Vatican's continued insistence that women are 2nd-class citizens (the only explanation for their abhorrence of women taking more-active roles in the Church) will cause them great harm in the future as more and more Catholic women wake up and smell the coffee.

[January24th]

The Church is His people. His people are "sacred" but inanimate buildings never can be. The actions within a building can be sacred or profane without hurting the building a whit.

How can gratitude be considered abusive? If I celebrate God's goodness with laughing and dancing and clapping within my home, (I have, and I do) I gladden His heart, and mine. It is a sacred act. If I do it within an assembly, it should be agreed by all that it is not to draw attention to anything other than God's goodness. Decency and order still apply, but they don't have to be prohibitive.

As if the Church didn't have enough problems. Bringing outer order to a inner-disordered Church will not make the vessel clean. Clean the "inside," the heart of the Church, I believe is what Jesus told the church leaders of his day...

No wait,if that happens, there'll be some real joy and dancing and lightness of heart and gratitude...and holiness and accountability and reverent fear.

[Phantom Lord]

Nonsense? Seems you are the one out of touch with what was going on in the church. Decades of silence and virtual acceptance of what was happening occured. DECADES!

Or maybe you are of the opinion that it was just a few, isolated instances and the media just blew it out of proportion and made a big deal out of it when in reality it wasn't a problem at all.

[Pyro7480]

A "joyful noise" can also describe chanting or singing, so I don't see that as "disposing of the Psalms." There are plenty of Christian sects that have issues with dancing, either in services or period.

[Havoc]

Brother. I didn't see anything wrong with the article. And I honestly more came away with the feeling that to be religiously frigid is to be catholic. Hence the warnings against people honoring God in their own way in violation of liturgy. Whether that is the aim, it sure seems to be the result intended. But I'm sure we just can't understand such things because we're bigoted anti-whosits. Or perhaps you just have a chip on your shoulder and are trolling for an argument. I'd suggest the latter.

[JesseHousman]

I just returned from a trip to Eastern Europe that included travel in Poland where I attended Sunday mass.

The old, important parts of the mass, replaced subsequent to Vatican II with the vernacular, are sung in Latin there.

Handshaking is out.

When you enter the sanctuary you know something important is going to happen there because chit-chat is left at the door as worshippers kneel in prayerful preparation for the mass.

Our bishops had better get off the pot, because figures indicate that SSPX attendance figures are rising.

[machman]

Stop that! Stop that! You're not going into a song while I'm here.