Posted on 09/07/2003 6:36:06 PM PDT by nobdysfool
The Christ of Arminianism
The Bible warns us that in the last days in which we live there will be many false Christs-those who claim to be Christ but who are imposters. Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matt. 24:4-5). We who profess to be Christians must take heed. We must be very careful that we are not deceived. Our calling is to trust, love, and follow the true Christ and Him only. We may have nothing to do with the false Christs who are so numerous in our day.
We know about the Christ of the cults and other religions. He is a good man, a prophet, the first creation of God, a great spirit, a divine idea, or even a god himself. But he is not true and eternal God. He receives his existence from another who is greater than he. He is not the Christ of the Bible. We are not deceived by this Christ. He is a false Christ.
We know about the Christ of Roman Catholicism. They profess that He is true God. He suffered and died for the forgiveness of sin. He arose again, ascended into heaven, and is coming again. But he is not a complete Savior. The Christ of the Roman Catholics can not save sinners without their own good works and the intercession of priests. He is not the Christ of the Bible. We are not deceived by this Christ. He is a false Christ.
There is, however, another false Christ who is much more dangerous than the Christ of the cults and the Christ of Roman Catholicism. He has deceived people for many years and he continues to deceive millions. This Christ is so dangerous that, if it were not impossible, he would deceive the very elect (Matt. 24:24). He is the Christ of Arminianism.
This false Christ is extremely dangerous because in many ways he appears to be the True Christ. They say that he is true God, equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They say that he died on the cross to save sinners. They even say that he saves by his grace alone, without the work of man. This Christ will have nothing to do with the Christ of the cults and the Christ of Roman Catholicism.
But watch out! Be warned! The Christ of Arminianism is not the Christ of the Bible. Do not be fooled!
1. The Christ of Arminianism - loves every individual person in the world and sincerely desires their salvation.
The Christ of the Bible - earnestly loves and desires the salvation of only those whom God has unconditionally chosen to salvation. (Ps. 5:5, Ps. 7:11, Ps. 11:5, Matt. 11:27, John 17:9-10, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, Rom. 9:10-13, Rom. 9:21-24, Eph. 1:3-4)
2. The Christ of Arminianism - offers salvation to every sinner and does all in his power to bring them to salvation. His offer and work are often frustrated, for many refuse to come.
The Christ of the Bible - effectually calls to Himself only the elect and sovereignly brings them to salvation. Not one of them will be lost. (Isa. 55:11, John 5:21, John 6:37-40, John 10:25-30, John 17:2, Phil. 2:13)
3. The Christ of Arminianism - can not regenerate and save a sinner who does not first choose Christ with his own "free will." All men have a "free will" by which they can either accept or reject Christ. That "free will" may not be violated by Christ.
The Christ of the Bible - sovereignly regenerates the elect sinner apart from his choice, for without regeneration the spiritually dead sinner can not choose Christ. Faith is not man's contribution to salvation but the gift of Christ which He sovereignly imparts in regeneration. (John 3:3, John 6:44 & 65, John 15:16, Acts 11:18, Rom. 9:16, Eph. 2:1,Eph. 2:8-10, Phil. 1:29, Hebr. 12:2)
4. The Christ of Arminianism - died on the cross for every individual person and thereby made it possible for every person to be saved. His death, apart from the choice of man, was not able to actually save anyone for many for whom he died are lost.
The Christ of the Bible - died for only God's elect people and thereby actually obtained salvation for all those for whom He died. His death was a substitutionary satisfaction which actually took away the guilt of His chosen people. (Luke 19:10, John 10:14-15 & 26, Acts 20:28, Rom. 5:10, Eph. 5:25, Hebr. 9:12, I Peter 3:18)
5. The Christ of Arminianism - loses many whom he has "saved" because they do not continue in faith. Even if he does give them "eternal security," as some say, that security is not based upon his will or work but the choice which the sinner made when he accepted Christ.
The Christ of the Bible - preserves His chosen people so that they can not lose their salvation but persevere in the faith to the very end. He preserves them by the sovereign electing will of God, the power of His death, and the mighty working of His Spirit. (John 5:24, John 10:26-29, Rom. 8:29-30, Rom. 8:35-39, I Peter 1:2-5, Jude 24-25)
As you can see, although the Christ of Arminianism and the Christ of the Bible may at first seem to be the same, they are very different. One is a false Christ. The other is the true Christ. One is weak and helpless. He bows before the sovereign "free will" of man. The other is the reigning Lord Who wills what He pleases and sovereignly accomplishes all that He wills.
If you believe and serve the Christ of Arminianism, you must recognize the fact that you do not serve the Christ of the Bible. You have been deceived! Study the Scriptures and learn of the True Christ. Pray for grace to repent and trust Christ as your sovereign
I’m not sure what you’re trying to spin here, but that statement is obviously not true. If you are intimating that I was the one “wallowing “ in sin, you’re mistaken. That would be a judgment made by you about me because I opposed you in the interpretation of a scripture. That does not mean that I am therefore “wallowing” in sin. Not only that, but the offense I took was not against scripture, but against your unwise, unsound, error-filled questioning of my salvation, with the very first words you posted to me in that regard being, “Perhaps you are not saved”. My offense was at your words, not God’s Word.
You may want to go back and read the posts which you stumble over and consider them in light of Scripture, not opening yourself to anything I write, but instead simply opening yourself to Him.
The unspoken thought here being your thought that, “If you do so, you will find that I was right and you were wrong, therefore your offense was at God’s Word, and not mine,” thereby “getting you off the hook”. Nice try. Didn’t work.
I disagree with your present stance. No, I'm not lying to you. I allowed your logic but reminded you that you might be mistaken in yur accusation that I am lying to you. Yes, I also understand you fully know this and also believe it is humorous to contrive other arguments.
I pointed out, in detail, exactly where you were, in fact lying. You claimed that I was calling names in my first post on this thread. I quoted my first post, in its entirety, and showed unequivocally that you were in fact, lying. Do you deny this?
I am contriving no arguments. None whatsoever. I am dealing with cold, hard, facts. Facts which you do not want to face up to, admit to, and are even now attempting to spin your way out of.
As for your repetitive appeals to false statements, again I haven't judged, privately or publicly your particular salvation. That only resides between yourself and God.
"Repetitive appeals to false statements"? I have made no false statements here in this matter. You, on the other hand, have made a plethora of them. You claim you haven’t judged, privately or publicly my particular salvation? You most certainly have. I have quoted the exact words, your words several times. Shall I do so again?
The consequence of sin for the believer is a scarring of the soul and self removal from many of His blessings.
Something you would do well to consider in regard to yourself in this matter. The scarring of your soul is quite evident to the rest of us.
Again I ask you, with witnesses, to withdraw your slander and libel of me, your questioning of my salvation, and your attempts to impune my character and credibility. You have committed public acts of slander and libel against me, you have questioned the handiwork of God in my life, and you now persist in denying these truths. I ask you to apologize and admit your wrongdoing, admit your guilt, and take the step you must take to resolve this matter. The scarring on your own soul can be healed, but only by doing what you know you must.
I have been more than patient with you. I have patiently, but firmly explained to you time and again exactly what you have done, and what you must do to resolve it. I will not let you weasel out of it, spin your way out of it, or lie about it. You have attempted to do all three in your attempts to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions. If you refuse yet again, I will post ever bit of the initial exchange between us that led to this. Those who have not seen will see what the rest of us already have seen.
Repent, that you may find times of refreshing from the Lord.
The purpose of this forum, and its structure is to allow such things as articles, papers, exerpts from books, etc., to be posted for comment and discussion. There is no incumbent rule that the poster must believe, support, or even like the article, paper, book exerpt, etc.
You are spinning again, C.
Two thoughts: Are those who worship false Christs Christians?
Secondly, Is it not true that when one states the Truth about a matter, the ones who are stung by the Truth will view the Truth as an accusation?
There is some good news though, nobdysfool, until the first death, every man still has an opportunity to come to Him, The Lord and Savior Christ Jesus through simple faith and His possession is eternal.
That statement is true enough, but it is obvious how you mean it. You're not nearly as subtle as you think.
No repentence? No apology? No admitting that you falsely questioned my salvation? No admitting that you tried to tear me down to build yourself up? No conscience?
That was not my question. As for Catholics, I think there are Catholic Christians, but the system of doctrine is definitely not "rightly dividing the Word of Truth". I would say the same about Arminians. As one author put it, Arminians are saved, and that by a "felicitous inconsistency". The Arminian doctrines themselves, when taken to their conclusions, are not biblical, IMHO. That doesn't mean that an Arminian can't be saved, any more than it means that a Catholic can't be saved. People aren't saved by doctrine, they are saved by the True Christ, Jesus.
I did not say whether I entirely agreed with the article or not. I posted it for discussion. It amazes me how quickly people read into things what they want to see, and then go off half-cocked, and say things the article never said. Webber was a good example of that.
Would you not agree, though, that a person who worships a false Christ cannot be a Christian? The operative word here is "false"...
Yes, I would agree. I believe there are essentials between Calvinists, Arminians and Catholics and that many in each tradition follow the true Christ.
I would not, however, distinguish between a "Calvinist Christ" and "Arminian Christ" or a "Catholic Christ."
Who Christ is is not determined by what we call Him. Or even what we think about Him.
That is true. On the other hand, if we or anyone does not represent or present Christ as He is presented in scripture, to the degree that it deviates from scripture, to that degree it is false, is it not? Scripture presents a true portrait of Christ. Our representation of Him should be true to scripture.
That's why Christology is such an important study in theology.
Think about all the Old time healers..They would run around and lay hands on hundreds in camp meetings ..may be one got healed. Now the proud man will speak of his healing gift..but he obviously does not have control of the gift, God does.
As to whom God gives them, He gives them to whom he pleases . I believe He gives the gift and the desire to use it when He ordains it . Gifts stand as a witness to God and His sovereignty. We are told to desire the best gifts..but as you know best: is arbitrary . I think best is what ever you need at the moment.
Jean there are very many things I dislike about Charismatic churches and doctrine , I see much of it as the flesh , they often replace knowledge for experience.. and they often are puffed up by their "gift" which is only effective If God uses it.. I believe there are far fewer in action than is claimed ..so much is flesh.
The book of Acts shows well our attitude to the use of any gift (even the teaching or Pastoring gifts) The were about the work of giving the gospel ...that was their mission, the gifts were not used on every one that walked by .
Those who are Christ's cannot ultimately fall away, for He is able to keep them from falling. He may fall, but he will not be utterly cast down. The Lord shall lift Him up. This has been true in my own life.
However, I wonder why you keep posting things like that, as though I didn't know them? Unless I am mistaken on this, you are baiting me. Very unbecoming of you, to be devious. However, the truth of this statement, as far as it goes, is scriptural, as are my additions. I just completed the thought.
When are you going to address the real problem here?
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