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Actually, there is no debate on the RC forum either.

Knowledgeable posters like sitetest and patent have all but vanished from FR, and these two were major proponents of the NO.

The RC forum now consists of the far right: schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevacantist.

There is NO advocacy for the Novus Ordo, and the rare poster who attempts a defense is slapped down by having his faith questioned or is called a "modernist."

So, drstevej, the religion forum is now the Traditionalist Forum, and those few RCs who remain on it will shortly be talking to themselves.

Are you kidding me?? You may be one of only ones who truly advocates for the NO, but there are plently of people who don't belong to the groups who are, as you put it, "schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevcantist." I grew up with the NO. If it doesn't turn to the a frolicking of litrugical dancers, guys with guitars, and irreverance to Blessed Sacrament, I'm ok with it, for the most part. My preference, however, is for the Latin Mass.

The RC forum now consists of the far right: schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevacantist.

I still post a bit on the Religion Forum. Does that make me a schismatic, an integrist, an ultra-traditionalist, or the odd sedevacantist?

I agree that sitetest and patent and siobhan are sorely missed, but I think you have gravely insulted the majority of us non-integrist orthodox Catholics who remain.

schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevacantist.

I don't consider myself any of the above, even if I do lean more towards traditionalism than you do. Then again, I don't post all that much in the religion threads. :-)

I don't honestly know if I prefer the Tridentine Rite, as I have never attended a Tridentine Mass. If one were offered in my area, I'd attend, and see if it is preferable.

I think the Novus Ordo is not necessarily the problem with the Church today; it's really abuses of the Novus Ordo (which could theoretically occur with the Tridentine as well) that are the problem. I can see good things about both rites.

As far as why there's so much Catholic stuff posted: well...it is the biggest Church in the world, and there's been a lot of news about it lately.

"The RC forum now consists of the far right: schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevacantist."

I have attended nothing but the N.O. since the Church changed the Mass. That being said, if I still lived in the diocese of Richmond I doubt that I would still be Catholic. You would probably find me at the athletic club on Sunday mornings. I have no real problem with the N.O when the rubrics are followed, but when unspeakable abuses are introduced(and I don't mean altar girls and EEMs) so that you wonder if the Mass and the Sacraments are even valid that is when I have to wonder what happened to the Church that I loved. If all I had now were invalid sacraments offered and there were an SSPX chapel nearby, then yes, I would go. If a Tridentine Mass came to town I would certainly check it out, perhaps attend regularly.

I like this forum because there are knowledgeable Catholics here who don't accept everything at face value unlike my previous fellow parishoners who thought that everything Father did was just wonderful, even when he had the gall to change Holy Thursday footwashing to handwashing. Sheesh!

I am not nearly well versed in Catholicism as many of the posters here. I have an M.A. in Religious Studies but most of my studies were in deconstruction. What little knowledge I do have comes from Catholic periodicals so I really like reading everyone's opinion here as long as they don't get nasty.

Knowledgeable posters like sitetest and patent have all but vanished from FR, and these two were major proponents of the NO.

For me and Deacon Sinky to agree is noteworthy. I agree that sitetest and patent are knowledgeable posters, I've learned a great deal from them. Have they really "disappeared"? Were they (are they) "proponents" of the NO or just well spoken defenders of the mainstream orthodoxy which includes both the NO and the Tridentine (as well as some 20+ other valid Rites)?

There is NO advocacy for the Novus Ordo, and the rare poster who attempts a defense is slapped down by having his faith questioned or is called a "modernist."

You fail to make a crucial distinction, sinkspur.

There is a difference between the NO celebrated according to the GIRM and the NO as it is adlibbed in far too many parishes.

There is also a difference in the use of Latin as recommended by the Second Vatican Council and the disuse of Latin that has occurred as a result of disobedience and adlibbing.

The bare assertion that the Novus Ordo Missae is a superior rite of Mass to the Tridentine is a matter for legitimate disagreement, and no one should be called a modernist for preferring the NO.

The fact remains, however, that if the NO were celebrated according to the GIRM every Sunday in Latin as Sacrosanctum Concilium recommends, there would be almost no sedevacantists, schismatics, etc. The NO is perfectly capable of maintaining the atmosphere of solemn dignity and reverence.

The self-hating Catholics in the USCCB chanceries and ICEL tried to warp the Mass beyond recognition at light speed and they were unable to pull it off successfully - but they did succeed in driving many Catholics underground with their disobedient behavior.

If every bishop permitted their priests to celebrate the Tridentine Rite and refrained from stigmatizing the priests who chose to celebrate it, I can't imagine the SSPX could stay in operation.