VATICAN: Return of the Latin Mass? "celebrate Latin Mass on a weekly basis in every parish in world"

Inside the Vatican News ^ | May 13, 2003 | Robert Moynihan

[Polycarp]

The Return of the Latin Mass?

Exclusive: The Vatican is preparing to call, in the clearest way since the Second Vatican Council, for an end to liturgical abuses -- and for far wider use of the old Latin Mass

“The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace.”

By Robert Moynihan

VATICAN CITY, May 13, 2003 – Forty years after the Second Vatican Council, after four decades of liturgical "experimentation" which has troubled many of the faithful, Rome is about to issue a major disciplinary document, ending years of a generally "laissez faire" attitude toward liturgical experimentation and “do-it-youself” Masses.

The document is now in draft form and is expected to be published between October and Christmas this year.

In a bombshell passage, the document will also encourage far wider use of the “old Mass”, the Tridentine rite Mass, in Latin, throughout the Roman Catholic Church.

The new, stricter guidelines for celebrating the liturgy, and the mandate to celebrate the old Latin Mass more widely, even on a weekly basis, in every parish in the world, will be contained in a document to be published by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, headed by Nigerian Cardinal Francis Arinze.

“We expect the document to be published before Christmas,” Arinze told "Inside the Vatican" in an exclusive interview. “We want to respond to the spiritual hunger and sorrow so many of the faithful have expressed to us because of liturgical celebrations that seemed irreverent and unworthy of true adoration of God. You might sum up our document with words that echo the final words of the Mass: ‘The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace.’”

We will be reporting in more detail on this historic document in future issues of "Inside the Vatican."

[huskyboy]

No they don’t. You talk like the only things you know about Novus Ordo Catholics is what you read in the Jack Chick comics. We use wheat.

Excuse me, I grew up in novus ordo and bailed out of it late last year when I heard the truth about what Mass really is and because of scandals going on in the diocese. Not to mention that I came to realize there wasn't much of anything Catholic going on in most parish churches.

I know about the invalid matter stories for Communion because I read the news stories like other sane people. Even Steven Brady of RCF had to confront that issue in one diocese. It's a well known fact some places use same ingredients as cookie dough for their "bread". May not have happened in your parish, but it doesn't mean it hasn't happened elsewhere.

An invalid Mass would hardly desecrate a consecrated building.

Have you been to a "clown" novus ordo? How about a "coffee" novus ordo? Or better yet, a "black culture" novus ordo such as what many of us discussed last week? If these kinds of events happened in a traditional chapel, it would be sacrilegeous. Those are totally man-centered, not Christ-centered, forms of worship. Mass is not a time to be mocking God. If one does so during Mass, would this not be sacrilege? I think so. There are ways of desecrating a chapel without committing acts of violence (e.g. fistfights), you know.

Just as receiving the Blessed Sacrament with the hands in normal circumstances implies something contrary to the faith, so is the issue of the priest (or presider, sorry) facing the people the whole time. Can you imagine a priest turning his back on Our Lord - that implies the priest is equal to Him!

I pray all the time during Mass. What is your source for these things?

I speak from experience. Believe me, the novus ordo parishes I've gone to either explicitly or somewhat implicitly request "active participation". From the handshaking to the singing. And what is meant by "active participation" definitely did not include prayer, not even the Rosary.

[ninenot]

I think you're wasting your time.

[huskyboy]

Want to start explaning the change in the consecration form for the novus ordo?

Sure. There is no Change. Have you compared the Latin Novus Ordo to the Latin Tridentine? I didn’t think so.

Ha! I'm not that naive. Let's be serious, do you think that Latin version of the novus ordo was really going to be said in every parish? Hey, a Latin novus ordo is even harder to find that the true Mass!

Anyway, the Latin novus ordo is just as man-centered as its vernacular counterparts: same arrangement at the front - usually, no altar with the tabernacle moved out of the way, priest/presider facing the people, 70% of original prayers for Mass have been removed or replaced. . . the only difference between them was one word. But they still moved phrases in the form of the consecration.

Let me ask you one question: why do you insist on the novus ordo? What is it that makes it better than the true Mass? Or is it that you support it out of false obedience?

[huskyboy]

The Pope also said that Martin Luther was right. That was the wrong asnswer.

Now, see, the above is a Catholic response.

I don't do every little thing or believe everything because the pope says so. If he asks us to do something that is sinful, then it's an abuse of authority and we can just ignore it. Better to reprove him, though.

[pseudo-ignatius]

Or is it that you support it out of false obedience?

Heh, that's funny... I'd be interested to hear how you reconcile any notion of obedience to the Holy See with your suggestion that the Novus Ordo is "heretical" in any way. You are just one more schismatic, in a long line of many others who have taken their own judgment above that of Holy Mother Church, those who have sacrificed union with the Apostolic See to follow what is really nothing more than their own preferences. Do you have any concept of what is necessary for a valid Mass? The Novus Ordo possesses all the essential elements. I will be among the first to voice cautious criticism of the new liturgy, but it is not my place to make the decisions. If you really do prefer the Tridentine missal, then you can attend an Indult Mass... His Holiness has already made every accomodation which he should suit your preferences. All that you've really pointed to are extreme cases of abuse of the Novus Ordo. I am with you in criticizing these... but it's a gigantic fault in logic to blame the missal and the norms for the abuses. While there is room for criticism of the new missal, one can't criticize the missal itself for the abuses without simply being silly.

[pseudo-ignatius]

I'm also curious whether you noticed my earlier post, where I wanted to see what you would have to say to the fact that during the Jesuit missions to China permission was given to say the Mass in Chinese... the permission was never actually used by the Jesuits, but they did (with permission) alter the liturgical garments. Furthermore, the litany for the Roman Canon was changed for the Indian mission (permission to add St. Thomas the Apostle to the litany was given, because of the Indian devotion to St. Thomas as the first missionary of their country). In the Eastern missions, which were all done by Roman Catholics, a lot of similar provisions were made for changes in the liturgy, and this was in the 16th through 19th centuries.

[k omalley]

"Only the Wanderer, and Al Matt, would think to use the word"nazi" in connection with those who celebrate the Novus Ordo rubrics."

I don't think the Wanderer is refering to those who celebrate the N.O. with the correct rubrics, but those, whether priests or laypeople, who would design their own liturgies which have little resemblance to a Catholic Mass, and come up with their own interpretations of the Sacraments which are heretical or at least bordering on heresy, and then force these things down the throats of others. I have run into these people, fortunately not in my present parish.

If the Church would universally celebrate the N.O as it was meant to be and allow a wider application of the Indult I would think that I had died and gone to heaven.

[sinkspur]

but those, whether priests or laypeople, who would design their own liturgies which have little resemblance to a Catholic Mass, and come up with their own interpretations of the Sacraments which are heretical or at least bordering on heresy, and then force these things down the throats of others. I have run into these people, fortunately not in my present parish.

You know, I read about these things, but I have never encountered experimental liturgies, or clown masses, or liturgical dance.

My pastor is 63 years old, uses every option available to him in the GIRM, sings the Eucharistic Prayer in a beautiful tenor voice, and follows the liturgical directives to a "t".

He has just written a guide to Penance Services as an encouragement to Catholics to avail themselves of the sacrament of Reconciliation on a more frequent basis, and it is being distributed to every parish in our diocese.

Our parish is a model Novus Ordo parish, and it is thriving; 64 people were welcomed into the Church on Holy Saturday.

So, you're right. I see the great good that is being done in our parish and by members of our parish, and it flows from the Sunday liturgies, which, with the exception of the "quiet Mass" at 7:30 Sunday morning, are packed.

And Fr. Johnson is gradually bringing more and more people to recognize the stewardship they owe God and their fellow Catholics.

I run the lector program in the parish, and, for the first time in fifteen years, I have more volunteers than I have slots open. People are actually standing in line, wanting to participate in the Liturgy of the Word.

[Aloysius]

I run the lector program in the parish

What would we do without lectors? Imagine if we had no ushers, or greeters, or worship leaders. The Church would be in a crisis.

[Salvation]

**“The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace.”**

I read two lines and don't want to read any further. Since when is the Mass a "do-it-yourself" thing. There have always been guidelines. And still are!

[sinkspur]

What would we do without lectors? Imagine if we had no ushers, or greeters, or worship leaders. The Church would be in a crisis.

I assume you're being serious here.

I do a much better job of reading than any of the priests in our parish. Why? Because I PRACTICE, and they don't. In fact, when I have to read, I've practiced enough that I have the reading nearly memorized and can maintain eye contact with the congregation throughout.

And I insist that all the lectors PRACTICE, and we have a once-a-year workshop that helps develop speaking and delivery skills.

Ushers, of course, ARE a necessity, but we don't recognize their ministry nearly sufficiently.

[Polycarp]

**“The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace.”**

I read two lines and don't want to read any further. Since when is the Mass a "do-it-yourself" thing. There have always been guidelines. And still are!

The quote to which you take exception comes from Nigerian Cardinal Francis Arinze, head of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. He apparently feels, from his vantage points, that there have been problems. And he is a frontrunner to be the next Pope. So I wouldn't write off his viewpoints too hastily ;-)

Here is the context:

“We expect the document to be published before Christmas,” Arinze told "Inside the Vatican" in an exclusive interview. “We want to respond to the spiritual hunger and sorrow so many of the faithful have expressed to us because of liturgical celebrations that seemed irreverent and unworthy of true adoration of God. You might sum up our document with words that echo the final words of the Mass: ‘The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace.’”

[k omalley]

"The do-it-yourself Mass has ended. Go in peace."

Allelulia!

[k omalley]

Woops! "has ended" should be "is ended."

[Salvation]

The new G. I. R. M. (Including Adaptations for the Dioceses of the United States of America)

And the new G. I. R. M. without the Americn Diocese adapatations

Questions and Answers about the General Instructions for the Roman Missal

G. I. R. M. adapatations (American) approved by the Holy See

General Instruction of the Roman Missal [G. I. R. M.]

Bishop: "Let chaos storm! When will it stop, change after change in liturgy? Never!"

The Return of the Latin Mass?

[Salvation]

**In my chapel 1,000 receive the Host from two priests in about 15 minutes. All kneel. Do you serve?

That's one communicant every 2.5 seconds.**

And that's hardly what I would call reverence toward the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist!

[Salvation]

**Surely a deacon and sub-deacon are required at every High Mass.**

Sub-deacon.

The last time I checked there were only three levels of Holy Orders:

Deacon
Priest
Bishop

Where are you getting sub-Deacon?

[jt8d]

PRAY THE ROSARY! OH, GOD, PLEASE LET THIS BE TRUE!
VIVA CRISTO RE! VIVA SANTA MARIA!

[Salvation]

**Our parish is a model Novus Ordo parish, and it is thriving; 64 people were welcomed into the Church on Holy Saturday.**

Wonderful news. Why do people concentrate on the negative in threads like this rather than pull out the positive? You tell me.

[Aloysius]

And that's hardly what I would call reverence toward the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist!

Why would you say that about people who kneel to receive Holy Communion from a priest? Do you hate the Traditions of the Church that much to cause you to make a statement like that?