[Corin Stormhands]

That in no way makes God the author of sin, as you keep trying to accuse Calvinists falsely of teaching and believing. You claim to have sat under Calvinist teaching for a time. Consider that it may not have been taught by a qualified or skilled teacher, and that would explain why you obviously don't understand Calvinist teaching, despite our repeated attempts to explain it.

There's no need to be patronizing just because your crowd can't defend your theology.

Sorry, I've also been on these threads for over a year now. The way your buddies have presented Calvinism, we sin because God makes us.

Now, if that's not what you believe, good. 'Cause it ain't right.

But even though no one will state it honestly, that's what has been taught here as Calvinism. And when we point it out you squeal like a stuck pig.

[nobdysfool]

There's no need to be patronizing just because your crowd can't defend your theology.

Patronizing? Hardly! Merely pointing out what I see and hear. It is obvious to me that you do not have a clear understanding of the Calvinist position, and that you haven't learned the finer points of constructing a logical argument. You drop "bombs" designed to supposedly "answer" arguments, or "disprove" someone else's position, but you don't engage in actual logical presentation of your position and why you believe it to be right. You're more content to act as a "yes man" for ftD than to actually present a cogent and logically laid out statement of your belief and why you believe it. Just quoting "proof texts" isn't going to cut it, because we can lob those back and forth at each other all day long.

Saying that God makes man sin is like saying that because you allowed your teenage son to drive the car, and he has an accident, that you caused him to wreck the car; or, because you allowed your daughter to go out on a date, and she has sex and gets pregnant, that you caused her pregnancy. That is precisely the logic you are employing, and it is obviously wrong. No Calvinist I know of would hold to such a position, that God causes man to sin, or that God is the author (originator) of sin. That connection exists within your own mind, due to faulty understanding of the Calvinist position.

You accuse others here of dishonesty, and I can't help but wonder about the three fingers on your pointing hand that point back at you when you make that accusation....

[xzins]

I have been told that everything that ever has or ever will occur is part of the decree of God. Everything, therefore -- bar nothing at all, ever -- was in the mind of God.

I see absolute foreknowledge coming to exactly the same conclusion.

[fortheDeclaration]

and that would explain why you obviously don't understand Calvinist teaching, despite our repeated attempts to explain it.

Amazing how no non-Calvinist 'understands' Calvinism.

The problem in understanding Calvinism is that they want anything to mean anything.

Calvin stated very clearly that it was by God's will that Adam sinned, (and Calvin rejected the notion of a permissive will,it was all directive)

I admit that by the will of God all the sons of Adam fell into that state of wretchedness in which they are now involved (Institutes, Book 3, chapter 23)

I guess Calvin himself did not understand Calvinism!