Hillary & the Raelians
A connection???
Posted on 01/22/2003 3:16:06 PM PST by RnMomof7
EVERYBODY got launched from some kinda root!
So what?A
. Once upon a time in a far-away land far,far away, a young man named Joshua announced the discovery of a marvelous new kind of soap. People were skeptical at first, but they soon found that this new soap made everyone very happy because it got them so clean. Because it was so powerful, it got rid of dirt and stains that had been around for years.
. Because Joshua's soap worked so well, men found that they had more time to spend with their wives and children. Marriages got better, people were happier, and everybody admired the young man who had given them the soap. Joshua refused to charge for the soap and gave it away to all who asked for it. This bothered some rich people, but the poor loved it. Not surprisingly, the manufacturers of rival kinds of soap soon became very angry because their business was being hurt badly.
. Before long, Joshua had followers who were traveling around the country, giving away the new soap to all who asked for it. Of course, this new soap was an instant success because the people of Joshua's country had been trying for years to make themselves clean with their own homemade soap. Thousands became great fans of the new soap, and they formed small groups to spread its use. The other soap manufacturers became desperate and tried to get Joshua to charge for his soap, but he refused. He said, "I prefer to give it away, because no money would be adequate payment for a soap as perfect and complete as this one is."
. When the soap manufacturers found that this strategy wouldn't work, they started a smear campaign against Joshua and his followers. They said that the soap made cleaning too easy - that you should have to work harder to get things clean. They also said that Joshua and his followers were immoral because they had been seen in the company of the dirtiest people in the world. Joshua smiled when he heard these charges, and said, "Although everybody needs soap, it is the dirty people who need the soap the most!" These slanders didn't work because the common people realized that Joshua truly loved them and that is why his soap was free.
. Since their other tactics failed, the rival soap manufacturers plotted to kill the young man. They paid an informer to betray Joshua and then arrested him. They paid witnesses to perjure themselves in court, and finally they were able to have Joshua convicted of trumped up "crimes" and executed. The soap manufacturers were certain that this would take care of the problem, but to their dismay Joshua's followers continued to distribute the soap. Persecution of the followers didn't work either, for Joshua's followers kept spreading to new areas and kept giving away the soap.
. After many years, the rival manufacturers decided to try the policy of "if you can't beat 'em then join 'em." So they analyzed Joshua's soap and came up with a very clever substitute, which looked the same, but, of course, it didn't work. They used the same name for their soap that Joshua had used and organized a promotion campaign to corner the market. Because of their organization and slick advertising, they made great progress and even got many of Joshua's followers to join them for a while.
. Soon, however; these infiltrators started to charge for their counterfeit soap, and, because their distributors had replaced many of Joshua's followers, many people had to buy the soap now - and their substitute didn't really work! However; some people read Joshua's instructions and those of the early users of the soap and discovered how they could get it for free! Because of Joshua's written instructions, down through the centuries there were always groups who distributed Joshua's real soap for free.
. After several centuries the leading soap manufacturers decided that they needed a publicity gag to stir up interest in their counterfeit version of the soap, so the started Soap Crusades to go back to Joshua's homeland and try to recover the original bucket in which he had first made the soap. Mighty armies were raised because Joshua's homeland was now in he hands of some people that didn't believe in Joshua's soap. These Soap Crusades resulted in wars and the deaths of thousands of people and much destruction and heartache. Many true followers of Joshua protested against these campaigns, but were killed for their efforts. Finally the Soap Crusades ceased, but they did stir up a lot of interest and sold a lot of the counterfeit soap.
. Several centuries later, when soap sales were lagging again, the manufacturers decided to use force to make people buy their soap. They started an intricate system of spies to report on people who didn't use the "right" soap. They also used a group of zealous torturers who called themselves the 'Investigation' to torture people suspected of not using the manufacturers soap. Many people were killed by the Investigation for using Joshua's soap, and yet, Joshua's soap continued to be passed out to all who asked, for free!
. After a few more hundred years, a whole new kind of attack on Joshua's soap began. This time the charge was made that Joshua's written instructions were not really reliable. This attack came from two directions. The first group of attackers said that the instructions were missing some very important parts that the evil rival manufacturers had taken out in centuries past. Various of the attackers claimed that Joshua, himself, had come and appeared to them, giving them special authority to "restore" the lost instructions. Of course, the attackers all had different versions of the "restored" instructions and none of them were even close to being in agreement with each other. In many cases they weren't even in agreement with Joshua's instructions. Even so; they were able to deceive some of the users of Joshua's real soap.
. The second group of these attackers used a more "intellectual" attack. They called themselves the "Elevated Critics" who said that the instructions didn't really mean what they said, and certainly they weren't the final authority on how to get clean. They told the people that Joshua was just another good man who had high ideals, but his wasn't the only soap around. So they took the "mythology" out of Joshua's instructions and left an empty shell, which couldn't clean anyone, in its place.
. Well, about 2000 years have gone by now, and Joshua's true soap is still available free, and people are still getting clean and being happy. And there are those who try to peddle a similar but counterfeit kind of soap for profit or power. Now, there are some who say you, really, can't get clean, but a little soap is a good thing and everybody ought to have some, but don't go overboard! Others worship books about the original soap, and still others have Joshua's true soap, and have found that only through his power can they become clean. . In our parable, Joshua's soap is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel (which means "GOOD NEWS") could not be stamped out by the "rival manufacturers" or anyone else, because it was a MESSAGE, not an earthly system of priesthoods, rite and organizations. The message of God's provision for the gift of eternal life for sinful men has endured even to our day and people are still getting "clean" by submission of their lives to Jesus Christ - ALONE. In spite of many attempts to destroy the Gospel message by eradication of the believers, or perversion of the message itself, the GOOD NEWS of what Jesus Christ did for YOU on His cross remains as viable today as it was on the Resurrection Morning.
Ever hear of word of mouth Boys and Girls? It's the best way to keep things going, even if God decided not to give us His written Word, this Message never would of died, for it is just too simple to die.
Could it be that this "imperfect worship" on the part of Adam is required to have Adam as the first transgressor (a point made stronly and often by the Apostle Paul) rather than Eve. The first Adam sinned, the second Adam (Christ) overcame sin.
What don't you understand?
I understand "they " includes me
so Ill ask again -as one of them, what did I attack?
Or is categorical "lumping" typical ? - I really need to know since tuesday is fast appraoching and Im trying to get my determinist kilt ready
A connection???
(breathe, choke,....start again)
Brahahahahbwahabwahahahhaahhaah
Rotflol!! (gasping for air.)
Destiny? methinks you don't understand Calvinsim, LOL.
xzins, the quotes I took from the OFFICIAL Unification Church website are thoroughly ARMINIAN. Jacob Harmens (Arminius) couldn't have said it better himself!
"Any notion why THE denomination to really take root in Korea was presbyterianism?"
Ah, let me "guess". Satan is bound to allow the free spread of the Gospel through the gentile nations. That being the case, the elect (of which many apparently are in Korea), who now hear the preaching of Christ Crucified, have come to belief in the Reformed faith!
But I bet that is not the answer you were looking for.
"It's not actually different than what you say about free choice being possible amidst determination. You might want to think in terms of their religious background prior to Christian presbyterianism."
I know you have a bit of a reading comprehension problem, xzins, but try to read the Unification Church quotes a wee bit more carefully:
...Some people think that God controls human history. But, in fact, progress in human history is dependent upon us fulfilling our portion of responsibility. God's grace is forever beckoning; God's heart longs to save all His children. But as it is we who fell away from God, there is a certain restitution which is ours alone to make...
As I said, Arminius could not have said it better himself.
Jean
The Scripture record does not explicitly tell us from whence that thought arose, it only tells us of Eve's use of those words.
Sure, Eve wasn't created when the command was given. Thus, she heard from her husband, and we can only wonder whether he added to God's commands or whether she added to them. I tend to believe the former.
(Yet, I can only wonder at your statement that "Eve was deceived, Adam sinned". Does this mean that if I commit a sinful act, yet do so as a result of being deceived, that I am not guilty of the sin? ("The devil made me do it!") If so, then the vast majority of those who have not heard of the Bible must not be sinners, due to the fact that they have been blinded and "deceived" by Satan and kept from the truth. Just something to think about.)
Romans 4:14-15 14. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15. because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Moon IS a presbyterian versus Moon WAS a presbyterian."
xzins quoted in post #599:
"BTW, Sun Myung Moon was also Presbyterian."
xzins quoted in post #657:
Moon IS a presbyterian versus Moon WAS a presbyterian.
Do you blame Eck for being confused? LOL!
Actually, the TRUTH of the matter is that the Presbyterian Church which Moon was a member of EXCOMMUNICATED him WELL BEFORE he began his Unification Church.
Now, before you attempt to equate Moon being forced out of his church to Smith being forced out of his church, I must note that Moon was EXCOMMUNICATED -something which any good Presbyterian/Reformed church would do, while Smith was simply asked to leave.
More importantly, Moon also abandoned his Calvinism in exchange for his Arminianism as is evidenced by the quotes from the Unification Church's OFFICIAL website.
Smith NEVER abandoned his Arminianism and the Mormon cult continues to be ARMINIAN in their soteriology.
Which brings me to an interesting observation:
Of the Major Pseudo-Christian Cults...
The Mormons
Jehovah's Witnesses
Christian Science
Armstrongism (World Wide Church of God and its derivatives)
The Unification Church
Seventh Day Adventist
...they all share one thing in common: They are ARMINIAN in their soteriology through and through!
Now, if TULIP ~IS~ wrong and Arminius had it correct, then it is fascinating to note that ALL these Pagans were able to "see the truth" regarding the correct soteriology taught by the Scriptures, but NOT ONE of the REFORMERS of the PROTESTANT REFORMATION was able to get it correct.
For ALL the REFORMERS of the PROTESTANT REFORMATION were Calvinistic in their soteriology!
"Moon, Mary Baker Eddy, and Russel all launched from calvinist roots. "
That they were "raised" by parents who were in attendence of a Reformed congregation is FAR OVERSHADOWED by the fact that EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL you mentioned ACTIVELY REJECTED Calvinism BEFORE (or on the road to) their heretical Theology!
Jean
Give it up or you will become the new St. Jude Thaddeus
Patron Saint of Lost Causes
"The fact of the emergence of the one person Jesus within history was not a chance accident. It was the result of the predetermined will of the heavenly principles."
Now, if your arminianism requires you to believe that Jesus' emergence was a "chance accident", then you have other problems.
In other words, in context, these statements are not remotely exclusive to Calvinism's TULIP.
"Where will Unification Church members go?..."
Do you think that if someone uses the word "fate" or "destiny", that one NECESSARILY has a TULIP understanding? Goodness, Calvinists don't even use the term "fate" or "destiny", LOL. The concept of "fate" (i.e. the ~natural~ working out of history is a concept deeply tied to the "free" will history's citizens) is not REMOTELY Calvinistic with Calvinsim's emphasis on God's PROVIDENCE and God's plan unfolding without a hitch.
Go read up on the Stoics and you (might) understand.
"1. The Will of God God's Will came before me..."
To understand that FOLLOWING God's "Will" shall bring personal fulfillment does not subtract from Moon's conviction that "...progress in human history is dependent upon us fulfilling our portion of responsibility."
(Context, xzins, context!)
Jean
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