Could I ask a serious question of some Mormons? (Please?)

today | me

[Jael]

No man who rejects the testimony of Joseph Smith can enter the kingdom of God"
Doctrines of Salvation, vol. I, p. 190).

My question:
Is that what Mormons believe?
If so, how was anyone saved before 1830.

[restornu]

The day the GOV. steps in and keeps a bunch of old men from taking innocent young women to wife when the other one wears out is the day I get a bit more pro GOV.

This is sick! You don't really know, but listening to roomers, it seems you like to feed on gossip!

Your malnourish soul needs to be piety!

[Grig]

"Ron, this doesn't pass the giggle test. You really think BYU offers academic freedom to teachers who question the party line history of Mormonism? "

The church is about to put out the first (there will be more) DVD-ROM of hi-res scans of over 400,000 documents from it's archives. I don't see the Vantican doing anything like that.

And i don't think there are too many anti-pope professors at Catholic universities.

[Delphinium]

From a political POV, do you not find it disturbing that the government was able to outlaw a religous practice like that? Does not that offend your conservative principles and undermine freedom of religion? What do you think you would do if the government forced you and your spouse to divorce against both your wills, would you just accept it?

That is a good question, especially sense my great, great, great grandfather was the first Mormon martyr, and my great, great grandmother died after her house was burned, and her children including a 2 month old were out in the cold.I am very strong in my belief of freedom of religion. I guess I draw the line when its a child, or when women were forced, or threated with "blood atonement" etc.

Have you mentaly put yourself in the position someone who has and sincerely loves more than one wife, and has to pick one and cast the others aside (along with the children of those marriages)? Many of them suffered greatly at the hands of the government for their faith, which should not happen in the USA EVER. I don't blame them for expecting God to spare them from that heartbreak, or for not being able to make the adjustment overnight.

I personally have faced this. Too bad I couldn't have been married to the 4, or 5 men that I have been in love with. I chose to stay with my same old boring guy. ha ha

[drstevej]

***And i don't think there are too many anti-pope professors at Catholic universities.***

You're kidding, aren't you?

[restornu]

Tell me Steve would the Chrsitian University knowingly hire LDS or Atheist?

[Wrigley]

Check out some of the profs at DePaul.

[Wrigley]

Which Christian University? Are these all one?

[Polycarp]

Kidding or incredibly naive, take yer pick.

[Jael]

No apologies. I am all for the GOV stopping child abuse and adultery.

[Jael]

So you think the government should pass a law saying that all marriage partners have to have an age difference below some set number even though both of them consent to the marriage? What should that number be IYHO? If you are not going to put that restriction on monogamous marriages, what right is there to put it on plural ones?

A child can not consent to a marriage. I find it very sad that while you Mormons keep saying you no longer believe in men being able to abuse woman and children in plural marriages, you are all defending it here.

[restornu]

I have not a clue of GOV?

But you are so eager to believe and jumping on board anything that will malign the LDS, are child mosleters is a lie!

Anyone who violates the laws of God, automaticlly fell away from the Lord no matter what faith one professes!

BTW many of the plural marriages were not of a phyical union!

[restornu]

All those things you say could be your family or one you have read who really knows for sure?

[Grig]

"The Prophet Joseph Smith was obviously reflecting on the question of whether polygamy was right or wrong when he wrote the Book of Mormon. He ended up taking a very strong stand against it. In Jacob 2:23-24 we read:"

So why do you skip over verse 30? "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I WILL COMMAND MY PEOPLE; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." As I said before, a person who takes a plural wife when NOT commanded to is NOT living the doctrine of plural marriage, and Jacob 2 is in harmony with our doctrine.

Are you going to tell me you never read that verse? Or did you just not understand it, or is there some other reason you neglected to include that?

"You will never convince me that God commanded any man to go against his word. "

Please turn your attention to 2Sam 12:7-8 "...Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master’s house, AND THY MASTER'S WIVES into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things." Does God give evil gifts as rewards for faithfulness?

Then there is that bit about commanding Abraham to have a human sacrifice, and to mislead that guy about his wife, and all the times he commanded the armies of Isreal to wipe out some town killing every man woman and child and every ox and ram etc. as well. Don't be too hasty to judge what God will and will not ask us to do.

"Plural marriage was a very hurtful part of early Mormonism."

Sometimes what God requires is not easy. Even if you think the idea totaly mistaken, the fact that they did it shows a level of faith beyond anything I know of in the past 200 years.

"You can't tell me that it was a wonderful thing for a 60 year old man to marry a 14 year old? Or to marry a mother, and daughter."

It should be for them to decide that, not you or the government.

[Grig]

"Another question? How do you answer the source I quoted from was The Journal of Discourses? How could this be taken out of context?"

I'm not sure what you are asking. I said the JoD is not part of our cannon, the speeches in it are the personal opinons of the speakers.

[Grig]

"I guess I draw the line when its a child, or when women were forced, or threated with "blood atonement" etc."

I see no credible evidence that either force was used or "blood atonement" was practiced.

http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai048.html

[Grig]

"Check out some of the profs at DePaul."

Don't have time to read the bio of every one of them, could you just point me to one who is anti-catholic?

I did see this in their mission statement: "By reason of its Catholic character, DePaul strives to bring the light of Catholic faith and the treasures of knowledge into a mutually challenging and supportive relationship. It accepts as its corporate responsibility to remain faithful to the Catholic message drawn from authentic religious sources both traditional and contemporary."

Oh, and is it actually owned and run by the Catholic Church?

[Grig]

14 year olds can legaly marry where I am right now. It's a fact that people did marry younger (and die younger) 200 years ago then they do today, and that must be taken into account.

[Delphinium]

Do you consider the LDS Journal of Discourses evidence. I will do a search later today for you. I know it is no longer practiced, but you don't have to look into Utah history far to find it happened.

[Delphinium]

I'm not sure what you are asking. I said the JoD is not part of our cannon, the speeches in it are the personal opinons of the speakers.

Like Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young? They probably didn't understand the Mormon scriptures??

[Rad_J]

***A woman can not even GET into the Celestial Kingdom unless HER HUSBAND (not God) calls her..tell the truth..If he does not call she is a servent***

I have never heard the servent part. You seem to be suggesting that women can't go to the Celestial kingdom without a man. You don't bother to state that the reverse is also true. A man can't go to the Celestial Kingdom without a woman either. They are both in the same predicament.

Do you think churches need to be more PC? Does it also bother you that the Bible is mostly about men and written by men? Should Christ have been more PC and called a few women apostles? Why only men? Why not any Gentiles?