Posted on 01/01/2003 12:24:46 PM PST by Jael
Submitted for discussion, the following statement (and all that can follow from it....
1.) Did God lose his Truth? Or hide it? Or not allow it to be seen or known? (During the period of time in question.)
2.) Why would something that God has promised would continue, need to be "rediscovered"?
3.) Did He allow a period of time to exist where his church did not?
4.) If one holds to the fact that Rome was not the true church, where was the Body before Rome, and during Rome, but before Luther or Calvin?
5.) How does your belief regarding Rome effect your belief about Scripture? Did God give His Word to Rome? If so, why isn't she orthodox according to Scripture?
In an effort to more fully understand my Calvinist friends, I went searching for information. I found that statement on the website for the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC). I copied it from there, but I believe it probably fits a number of the Calvinistic belief systems. (Different Calvinistic churches.)
In starting this thread, I request that we check our egos at the door. I'd like to discuss this, but I am not interested in people who brag about what they know but never use any Scripture to validate their claims.
Also, this isn't an anti Catholic thread, but I will warn my catholic friends that they will not care for the beliefs many of us have regarding Rome. That doesn't lessen our respect for them as individuals. I invite them to participate here as well, if so desired.
I have friends in other religions who have said (it's a cop out I think, but bear with me) that they could never be __________ (such and such a denomination) because the people who disagree with each other are so rude.
I am not saying I haven't ever been,
(I REPENT!!)
but let's try not to be, ok.?
You never know who is watching and reading, and your testimony matters.
2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
By no means!
Sounds familiar:
And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah? And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria: And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room. And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay. Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him. - I Kings 19:13-18
In other words, God is always preserving a remnant for Himself. This will also be true during the Tribulation, of which Jesus said: Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? - Luke 18:8b (For those who need a little help, Jesus is saying that things will look so bad that it will appear to the unenlightened that the Church is non-existent, it will be that bad. Yet, Christ is King, and as King He is both rewarding His loyal subjects, and executing His wrath against His enemies. So, when it comes to the Tribulation, just as in the dark ages of pre-Reformation Europe, He will be destroying a proportionately larger number of His enemies compared to the number of His beloved saints.)
I probably wasn't as clear in that post about one point. That point being, Christ is not concerned primarily with the salvation of souls. He is much more concerned with His own Glory, and the honor of the Name of the Father. He receives glory by saving, and He receives glory by executing wrath. He is the King, and this is His right. (In fact, anyone who dre complain about this is a rebel and a traitor, and deserves His wrath.)
(In other words, it isn't about us at all, it is all about Him! Our role is to glorify Him, whether as a member of His body, the Church, or as a testimony of the righteousness of His wrath.)
Amen to this.
Amen...For His Glory that they may know He is God!
People do not like hearing that Jerry..it runs contrary to the theology of today that God made men and saved them because he was lonely or because we deserve it..
Cleburne is another new brother ..look for them huh?
Ok here is the EO version. "It is the classical teaching of the Orthodox Church that the very essence of Christian spiritual life, the very essence of life itself, is the acquisition of the Holy Spirit of God."
Gee, I hope there are some evangelicals in this discussion. :-)
Actually, I had just noticed CDL on another thread recently, and was going to post a response to him.
I think that CDL was lamenting the fact that he felt himself to be relatively in the minority, among Reformed brethren, in affirming Augustinian Traducianism.
I'd intended to ping "the_doc" to CDL's comments, and assure CDL that he's not exactly alone in affirming Augustinian Traducianism (unfortunately, he had to leave for a few hours. Well, maybe upon his return).
Welcome to FR, Cleburne!
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