Posted on 12/29/2002 9:23:52 PM PST by PFKEY
Hope no one minds the vanity too much.
I was thinking last night about this idea and was trying to make it jive somewhat with the notion of predeterminationalism if that is the correct word.
Also was curious regarding what the various Christian denominations taught on this subject.
We can agree that Gods grace MAY include all infants..BUT there is no scripture on that dec..
Gods
You assume that men deserve to be saved ..that they have some right to be saved..it is their due..God owes it to them..
Why me?...I do not know that,but scripture says
Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)It is Gods decision
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
I am a sinner saved by the grace of God..
Faith that is generated by Gods grace is not a work...Self generated faith is a work of the flesh...and by your defination of election God looks into time and selects men for election based on their own self generated faith..WORKS...
Why would God bother to elect or predestinate one that was going to choose him anyway?
If God loves ALL men without exception what kind of a God would demand double payment for sins..(make men burn for sins already paid for?)
BTW Ed Happy New Year
You seem confused about continuity, covenants and who they were with or for.
The covenant was with the Jews. The covenant did not continue. But regardless of that, it has nothing to do with baptizing unbelieving babies. That is a heresy straight from Rome. There is no way that sprinkling anyone who isn't saved makes them anything but wet. That isn't baptizing anyway. According to God that is. Rome and her daughters (as usual) teach something else.
Jael if God elects based on what we choose that is a salvation by works..God looks forward in time and sees we will chose him and THEN He predestinates and elects us...That my friend is salvation by works
I will ask you the same thing I asked dec..Why would God have to elect us or predestinate us if He knew we were going to select Him..a bit redundant isn't it?
Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Sadly, you are right. It's like this verse isn't in their Bibles.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
He's already said that all have sinned. I have already said that everyone deserved Hell. I don't think anyone has said anything even close to your comment above. That's not a charge that can stick. The only thing I can think that comes close is some Calvinist saying that elect unbelievers go to Heaven. Now that's a heresy.
Faith that is generated by Gods grace is not a work ... Self generated faith is a work of the flesh ... and by your defination of election God looks into time and selects men for election based on their own self generated faith ... WORKS ...No such thing as self(man) generated faith. Every good thing a man/woman possesses (faith included) is the gift of God.
Why would God bother to elect or predestinate one that was going to choose him anyway?
The opposite question ... Why would God set a condition of belief for those He had already chosen.
A bit redundant, isn't it ?
God elects by setting the condition for salvation as belief, in full foreknowledge of who will and who will not believe.
What is election according to? Who are the children in this passage? Who on this thread says that anyone is saved by a work? Just the Calvinist who clims that the work of sprinkling a baby engrafts it into Christ.
Elect, amen and yes. According to foreknowledge.
2 Peter 3:9 ¶The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
No one ever denied anything like that. It's just a straw man you folks keep builidng. Just like your saying over and over again I am following ARMINIUS, when you knew it was not true. He's just as much a heretic as Calvin.
If you had read further in Romans you would of read this....
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
All does mean all, whosoever will does mean just what it says. But God says that some will not. Israel would not.
Some will not believe, and obey the Gospel.
2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
It is good that the flesh of Jael made the right decision so God would choose her
"God chose us because we chose Him first"
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Here is what DEC said
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God-so why are you saved and not someone else? What justice is that?
That indicates he thinks men deserve salvation that the justice of God demands that men choose who should be pardoned
THAT IS JUSTICE according to dec
NO MAN deserves to be saved..TRUE DIVINE JUSTICE would be to throw all humanity in the pit
Salvation is not about men..it is about the glory of God..." I will have Mercy on WHOM I will have Mercy"
That is Justice according to God
Jael how does a just God demand double payment from some men for their sin..is that "just"
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