Uncharitable? Divisive? Strident? [PRIDEFUL???]: Recovering the Art of Christian Polemics

New Oxford Review ^ | October 2002 | David Mills

[Polycarp]

Polycarp himself once met the heretic Marcion walking down the street. Marcion hated the creator-God of the Hebrews, and to get rid of Him had tossed out the Old Testament and much of the New and rewrote the bits he kept. Marcion asked Polycarp, "Do you know me?" and Polycarp answered, "I do know you. You are the firstborn of Satan."

I guess St. Polycarp was prideful too, in the estimation of some of our non-Catholic brethren here ;-)

[Polycarp]

All of us are guilty of sinful pride.

Since all are prideful (especially on this forum), True humility CAN ONLY BE discerned from false humility (i.e., PRIDE) by the willingness of the prideful to admit their sin and their faults. The prideful never admit error, nor do they ever apologize for their transgressions.

Enough said.

--STILL, like St. Polycarp, PROUD2bRC!

Apologetics with ATTITUDE!

brought to you by

The Few, The PROUD, The Church Militant.

*****

[Polycarp]

A Christian Polemics PING!!!

(My own HUMBLE contribution to this wonderful INTERNATIONALLY CIRCULATED magazine, NEW OXFORD REVIEW ;-)

[B-Chan]

Food for thought. Thanks for posting this.

[Desdemona]

Some important things to think about. Thanks.

[ninenot]

Well, if Marcion was the firstborn of Satan, I know at least a few of Marcion's great-great-great grandchildren. Some of them were prominent Archbishops.

I rather like that quote. To be a BIT less direct, I suppose today we could say that "...you are the mouthpiece for Satan..."

But ol' Poly was a hitter...!!!

[tiki]

There are two posters on this forum that I'd like to repeat Polycarp's words to but...I won't. Although I did do so indirectly last night.

[Salvation]

**Looking back to the speech of our Lord and the earliest Christians may make pastors and writers feel better about doing their duty. Their words show that to say the hard word when needed is only to say what we must say, and what our Lord wants us to say. We know at least that we are doing as the Fathers would have done.**

A time to speak and a time to be silent.

[Snuffington]

bump for later reading

[RnMomof7]

It is very easy to point a finger at non Catholics and to seek their demise on FR because they interfer with your agenda ...but the truth was spoken by your own and never heeded...that is why the Spirit departed..he will not always strive with men

I am not the issue ..the light is the issue

Erasmus feared that the ceremonies outweighed the meanings in the Catholic Church; he wanted to teach people to revere and think about those meanings.

Erasmus's teaching rejected the material means to salvation so often peddled to the laity, emphasizing that such things distracted from discovering Jesus. Like Luther, he was particularly scornful of popular Catholic attitudes (and the clergy's exploitation of those attitudes) toward saints, writing in 1503,


Now there are not a few who are given over to the veneration of saints, with elaborate ceremonies. Some, for example, have a great devotion to St. Christopher. Provided his statue is in sight, they pray to him almost every day. Why do they do this? It is because they wish to be preserved from a sudden and unprovided-for death that day. There are others who have a great devotion to St. Roch.... This has gone to the extent that each nation has its own. Among the French St. Paul is esteemed, among us Germans St. Jerome has a special place. . . . This kind of piety, since it does not refer either our fears or our desires to Christ, is hardly a Christian practice. [3]

The saints were good, and one should respect their teachings, but "we kiss the shoes of the Saints and their dirty handkerchiefs and we leave their books, their most holy and efficacious relics, neglected." [4] Erasmus asked his Christians to return to the primary, to their Christ.

[tiki]

It has little to do with Catholics versus non-Catholics. It has much to do with just plain mean spiritedness. You may not think that you sound hateful and angry at anyone who doesn't believe as you do but you do.

You think you know what everyone else should believe; while I will leave that in the hands of the Lord. Your hatred shows so much that I wince when I read some of your posts. Even if I and others were pagans or atheists you would have no call to say some of the things you do. I accept that you don't believe what I do and I don't care! If God does, he'll change your belief and I have full faith in God that if I should not believe in Him through the Catholic Church, He will enlighten me. In the meantime, I find myself becoming as small-minded as you when I deal with you and so I won't anymore.

You seem to be the one with an agenda. You are the one who comes to Catholic posts, not I going to whatever other threads you post on. I have no care that you are on FR and post. I don't even care if you continue to answer my posts, that is your prerogative but I am using my own free will to ignore you. God Bless You and may all the Angels and Saints pray for you with a special intercession from Mary, the mother of God who magnifies the Lord.

[RnMomof7]

I wince when I read some of your posts.

That is not me making you wince ..it is your own conscience . Do you think the hears of Jesus winced when He addresed them?

Mat 23:15   Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
     Mat 23:16   Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
     Mat 23:17   [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Do you think the purpose of His address was to make them think about their practices?....I address doctrine and scripture primarily...and scripture is suppose to make you wince..

You are the one who comes to Catholic posts, not I going to whatever other threads you post on.

There is no such thing as "Catholic Threads" or Protestant Threads" .. there are threads that have more Catholic interest and threads that have more Protestant interst..BUT this is an OPEN forum

So when you post you have to expect a diversity of opinion. If you want a johnny one note forum where you only have others that agree with you Brians idea of a closed forum is a good idea. But Free Republic is a discussion forum...tiki ..you are welcome to come to any thread and put forth your thought and ideas . That is the way it works.

Tiki I believe that your prayers to Mary are in violation of the 1st commandment so PLEASE do not sin for me..

But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts." (I Thessalonians 2:3-4)

[DoorGunner]

tiki:

You wrote:
"I have full faith in God that if I should not believe in Him through the Catholic Church, He will enlighten me."


Rhetorical question: What would it take? What means could God utilize: to what, or, to whom, would you listen? What do you trust? What is your standard of truth, to which you would compare a putative "message from God," to see if it is true, or false?

I address these questions to you, Tiki (BTW, are you aware that your screen name is both a polynesian idol, and false god?) but I think they are very necessary questions for all of us who consider ourselves followers of Jesus.


DG


p.s. in re. RNmom, I haven't read much of her posts, so I don't know whether she is as evil as you paint her, but I think Polycarp invited her here (see post #2).

[Dajjal]

Very nice!

Rhetorical bump

[tiki]

Well, I would hopefully listen to the prodding of the Holy Spirit. If I told you of my LOoooooong journey towards Catholicism, a journey that I didn't even know I was on for years and only in looking back can I see the signs. The signs and miracles that I sub-concously missed but responded to, the fruit of my journey, even my firm denial and fighting of the goal, and the obvious little miracles, bore fruit.

Believe me, I didn't wake up one day and say I wanted to be Catholic and pursue the goal. On the contrary, it was a goal I couldn't fathom, a religion that I knew little about except the false and malicious labels that have been put on the Church. I bet my friends and the priests cringed when they saw me coming, I had so many questions, many accusatory, "prove it to me" type questions but they unfailingly answered me and if they didn't know the answer they told me that too.

I have been a Christian as long as I remember. My belief in God has never faltered in good times and in bad. I have, at times, lost faith in mankind but never God. He has been my Rock and my foundation and I have always tried to follow my conscience in all that I do. I've failed at times and I'm not perfect but I try as hard as I can to please God. And believe me, my journey was to be no where but the Catholic Church. It became as plain as the nose on my face and believe me, I have a honker.

So rhetorical or real, the answer is, I would listen and heed the calling of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I pray every day that I will follow the will of God and He knows how dense I am sometimes and has led me quite adequately throughout my life.

My screen name, tiki is a derivative of a Proper name and has absolutely nothing to do with any pagan god. And if it does, I would say that the problem is yours in that you are looking for evil where it doesn't exist. I suppose if someone was named Dianna or some other name which had a connection with pagan mythology, that too would be evil? An external appellation has no bearing on the heart and the heart is where God is looking.

[MarMema]

. My belief in God has never faltered in good times and in bad

Ahh, you surpass even Peter.

[RnMomof7]

You are correct...

[RnMomof7]

My belief in God has never faltered in good times and in bad. I have, at times, lost faith in mankind but never God. He has been my Rock and my foundation and I have always tried to follow my conscience in all that I do.

A man conscience is not the standard of truth. We live in a world where babies are aborted as a matter of conscience. There is only one standard for truth and that is Jesus Christ and that standard is found in His word..all else is subject to error

tiki if Gods is your all in all why do you pray to Mary instead of Him? Did you ever ask Him if it was OK to do that?

[american colleen]

Did you ever ask Him if it was OK to do that?

He listens to His Mom!

[american colleen]

Ahh, you surpass even Peter.

Why? Did Peter's belief in God falter?