We'll Take "The Quiet Mass"

Catholic Exchange ^ | October 16, 2002 | Jeffrrey Tucker

[Polycarp]

Thanks for this info. I've printed it out and tucked it away for Sunday.

[ninenot]

We drive about 15 miles to attend a VERY reverent, partial-Latin NO Mass--the option is about 3 miles to the local parish which has an increasingly -flagrant- abuse -of -the -ritual problem. The more distant Church is also older--vaulted ceiling, stained glass, elaborate woodcarved reredos, "high" pulpit, etc., etc.

The first time our 8-year-old was in the more distant Church, she opened her mouth and announced that "this Church is BEAUTIFUL."

Out of the mouths....

I would like it if the inventor of the "children's Mass" would spend the rest of his/her days changing diapers endlessly. Perhaps an understanding of the native intelligence of children would, ah, rub off...

[ninenot]

Nope.

It should be "POST hoc, ergo propter hoc."

BTW, I agree with you that a "vote" would preserve the NO Mass in the USA. But I am also convinced that the TOTAL lack of education regarding the Mass, its history, and the art-forms integral to proper celebration has a great deal to do with our shared projection of the 'vote.'

At the very least, such education would likely persuade many that their "Mass" is not exactly what it should be.

[Polycarp]

The first time our 8-year-old was in the more distant Church, she opened her mouth and announced that "this Church is BEAUTIFUL."

Sounds familiar.

Very few of our churches in this diocese retained their high altar and/or central location of the tabernacle.

Once we found the older churches that still have the high altar and central location of the Tabernacle, my kids (10, 8, 6) don't want to go back to the "new" style churches.

On mentioning that we will be attending any different churches than usual, my ten year old first asks where the Tabernacle is, and my 8 year old doesn't want to go unless the altar has the "old fashioned castles."

This is without any prompting from us. And I hate to admit it, but their common sense was the last word in deciding on our new parish choice recently. We thought of joining another diocese close to here to avoid the draconian hassles in this one with confirmation, but after attending, our children unanimously declared their desire to return to an old parish we found here with high altar and central tabernacle and good crusty old orthodox pastor.

[Maximilian]

>>The Anglican rite has much of the elegence that you are looking for.

I'm sure you're right. But what does that say about the New Mass? After all, the Anglican Rite is basically the Church of England service adapted so it's valid.

This confirms what Msgr. Klaus Gamber said in his book "The Reform of the Roman Liturgy": The New Mass is a much greater departure from the Latin Mass than were the services of Luther and Cranmer. Cranmer's service, with just enough changes to make it valid, is said by you and by others to be much more reverential that the New Mass.

Fr. Richard John Neuhaus has said the same thing about "high-church" Lutheran services.

[nickcarraway]

CARROTS? Are you sure?

[ninenot]

While the public schools (here, at least) are starting children in Latin in 6th grade (and the teachers WANT to start them in 4th grade)....

Our Liturgy Wonk Club tells us that 'children don't understand Latin.'

Frankly, the orientation of the LitWonks is such that they will not ever worry about children. But their overwhelming sin is ARROGANCE. My kids are smarter than the Wonks are.

[Loyalist]

Frankly, the orientation of the LitWonks is such that they will not ever worry about children. But their overwhelming sin is ARROGANCE. My kids are smarter than the Wonks are.

These are the same people whose heads will spin and mouths froth as they scream rabid denunciations of the 'clericalism' of the pre-Vatican II Church.

Today's liberal modernist bishops and priests are corrupt, self-serving tyrants who desire not to serve Christ but build bureaucratic empires and massive monuments to themselves.

To these people, the Church--her sacraments, liturgy, theology, philosophy, science, art, charities, indeed the whole deposit of faith--are their private property to dispose of as they please.

They would not have been out of place among the Soviet apparatchniki, or the senior management of Enron.

[NYer]

Great article! Thanks for posting it!

In fact, most of the people there seem to be under 40 and over 65, with the generation that came of age during Vatican II conspicuously underrepresented. Many, like us, travel long distances to attend.

That would be me!

Lord knows I've tried, by attending the bishop sanctioned Tridentine rite near me. It was like stepping out of a time machine, transported back to the early 1960's. Women dressed in the long skirts so popular then and wearing mantillas on their heads. It was fascinating to watch the altar boys skillfully trained in Latin as they offered the responses on behalf of the congregation. My old missal was new again. The communion rail was stiff, cold marble but the host was soft as a cloud, just as I remembered it. The choir, comprised mostly of young adults, sang "on behalf of the congregation". I felt, as I always had, like a bystander.

The Novus Ordo mass has much to offer for those of us who wish to participate in the mass. Watching the priest consecrate the hosts sends shivers down my spine. In my ideal world, though, it would combine the best of both formats. Altar boys, three readings instead of two, responses in Latin and songs sung by the congregants. And, oh yes, those cloudlike hosts offered up at the Tridentine mass.

[NYer]

The Novus Ordo masses in Latin at Mother Angelica's new shrine in Alabama was the single most sacred, reverent, beautiful, comprehensible, and moving masses I've ever attended.

A M E N !! This is the Novus Ordo mass that I would love to see in my parish. Until then, there is always EWTN.

[NYer]

All of us need to keep focussed on the center of our faith, the Presence of Jesus in the blessed Sacrament among us.

Bears repeating ... again and again!

[sockmonkey]

The Anglican rite has much of the elegence that you are looking for.

It's the Anglican Use. We are not a separate rite. It does have the elegant language, and reverence, that even the most reverent Novus Ordo lacks.

And yes, the translations are closer to the original Latin, than the language used in the Novus Ordo. Cranmer was not a member of ICEL.

[narses]

Ping.

[Salvation]

It should also be remembered that most American Catholics vote Democrat.

Not this one! And I don't think you will find too many Democrat Catholics on FR.

[Snuffington]

Most American Catholics like the Novus Ordo and would "vote" to keep it

You and I have exchanged words on this topic to no effect in the past. Let me attempt it again in a bit less hot-head style.

Before the NO was implemented, Mass attendance among Catholics was quite high. In the 80-90 percent range from the figures I've seen. In the aftermath of the reform Mass attendance is now in the 10-20 percent range. It would seem that a fair assessment of the question of a popular "vote" should compare the NO and Tridentine acceptance in a climate where each is fully taught and supported by the Church. In that light, the Tridentine "wins" hands down.

When the NO was implemented, no vote was taken or considered at the time. What do you suppose the results would have been if they had? I'd wager Church-goers would overwhelmingly reject the NO in favor of the Tridentine. Do you disagree?

[Dusty Rose]

Before the NO was implemented, Mass attendance among Catholics was quite high. In the 80-90 percent range from the figures I've seen. In the aftermath of the reform Mass attendance is now in the 10-20 percent range.

Should what you desire come to pass, that NO is abolished and Latin re-instated, that would not re-instate your 80-90% attendence of pre-Vatican II. What has happened is much deeper than language and ritual changes. Humanism has crept into the church, and man has, in a sense, made himself God, or has established independence from God. There needs to be a real repentance and conversion of heart so that one knows with all his being that he depends on God and that He alone deserves our highest reverence and our worship. Only then will the pews be filled again as they once were.

[livius]

Actually, while I love the Latin Mass (Tridentine Rite), I'm not that big a fan of the "silent Mass." Before Vat II, there were many parishes where liturgical renewal consisted of saying (or chanting) the Mass audibly, which I found to be a truly wonderful thing.

Some parishes did it only in Latin, while other parishes would do it in English from time to time, using an approved translation (but only certain parishes, and only on an occasional basis).

In other words, liturgical renewal - that is, a Mass that was not whispered to an altar boy or roared through in fragmentary Latin - was already underway.

I have always felt that if the Tridentine rite had simply been revitalized by being made audible and by occasional celebrations in REAL translations into the local language for folks who might have been missal-phobic, everything would be fine right now.

The "reform" was already happening: the question is why the powers that be wanted to change the whole thing.

Actually, there's no question. Lex orandi, lex credendi. And that's what many of the not so good players in Vat II wanted to change.

[american colleen]

NYer, I love the Mass on EWTN as well. I usually cannot see it entirely because of the times it is on - morning is getting the kids off for school, noontime I'm usually not home and I work most of the weeknights.

One thing I've noticed is that I do not hear the Creed on the EWTN Mass... usually it is said after the homily... how come it isn't that way on EWTN?

[WriteOn]

Our parish offers the Latin Mass and there are several Latin Masses about, including the indult. But I keep bumping up against the same issue. I can't understand what's going on. My wife thinks we should go to the Latin Mass. But how in the h*ll do you learn it? Is there a video or something? :-) I have no training in Latin to speak of...