Pope To Add New Mysteries to the Rosary

Catholic World News (Via Diocese Report) ^ | October 14, 2002 | Staff

[Campion]

Good information. It'll be scoffed at. But when you don't want to see the Truth...

Allow me to finish. When you don't want to see the Truth, you'll snap up any foolish nonsense that seems to denigrate and reject the Truth, in order to validate your own erroneous ways ... even the vicious nonsense, "backed up" by a verse that's not even in the Bible, posted by RnMomof7.

If you think I'm rejecting the truth, please explain why you and your pals have to rest your argument on a translation error. And then explain what Jesus was doing praying the same prayer three times in the Garden of Gethsemane.

[ELS]

The NYT version:

OME, Oct. 14 — Time and again, Pope John Paul II has boldly gone where other popes have not: a synagogue, a ski slope, distant countries with tiny populations.

On Wednesday, he will apparently cross another frontier, making a significant change in the rosary, a signature method of Catholic prayer for many centuries.

According to Vatican officials, the Pope intends to issue a document recommending that Catholics increase to 20 from 15 the number of events, or "mysteries," in Jesus' life that they contemplate when they say the rosary.

The document will be released in conjunction with the celebration of John Paul's 24th anniversary as pope. He was elected to the papacy in 1978, and is now, at 82 years of age, among the longest-serving popes ever.

One senior Vatican official said the pope's decision to expand the rosary was in keeping with "his creativity and his courage" in his approach to the boundaries, obligations and opportunities of the papacy.

The official also said that it was in keeping with the pope's desire to bind Catholics ever more closely to the life and consideration of Jesus.

"It's an attempt to try to deepen and make more complete Christians' identification with Christ," the official said.

Another Vatican official said the five new mysteries to be considered in the rosary would probably be drawn from the following themes, among others: Jesus' baptism in Jordan, temptation in the desert, transfiguration and entrance into Jerusalem.

The rosary currently encompasses 15 mysteries grouped into three sets: the joyful mysteries, revolving around Jesus' birth and infancy; the sorrowful mysteries, revolving around his suffering and death; and the glorious mysteries, revolving around his resurrection. The new events would apparently represent a fourth group.

The rosary is perhaps most famous for its adornment: a set of 59 beads with which Catholics can keep count of and track the progress of the prayers they say while contemplating the mysteries of Christ.

Catholic experts said the rosary, a prayer tradition, as opposed to a piece of fundamental church doctrine, had evolved across the centuries, although it often went long stretches of time and many papacies without any changes at all.

[RnMomof7]

What do you think Jesus was talking about? Go on to read that chapter..there he tells you how HE wants you to pray..not how YOU want to pray..not how the pope wants you to pray...He tells you how the savior of your soul wants you to pray

 

  Mat 6:7   But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.   

  Mat 6:8   Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.   

  Mat 6:9   After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

     Mat 6:10   Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

     Mat 6:11   Give us this day our daily bread.

     Mat 6:12   And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

     Mat 6:13   And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

  

No roseries, no novenas ,no intercession to saints...Pray like this...

[nickcarraway]

ensign of the female.

ensign?

[RnMomof7]

 
  Mat 6:7   But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
  
  Mat 6:8   Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
  
  Mat 6:9   After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
  
  Mat 6:10   Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
  
  Mat 6:11   Give us this day our daily bread.
  
  Mat 6:12   And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
  
  Mat 6:13   And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
  
  Mat 6:14   For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

[St.Chuck]

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

That is the King James version.

Here are some more:"But in praying, do not multiply words, as the Gentiles do; for they think that by saying a great deal, they will be heard." That is from a special commemorative bible printed in 1954. 1954 was the 100th anniversary of the proclamation of the Immaculate Conception as a dogma of the Church. It was proclaimed as a Marian year by Pope Pius XII.

Anyway here's another: From the New American Bible: "In your prayer do not rattle on like the pagans. They think they will win a hearing by the sheer multiplication of words."

A more recent printing of the New American Bible replaces "rattle on" with "babble".

From the Douay-Rheims: "And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they will be heard."

Here's how Knox translated Matt.6:7: "Moreover, when you are at prayer, do not use many phrases, like the heathens, who think to make themselves heard by their eloquence." Knox includes a footnote. It says "The very rare verb which our Lord uses here probably means to 'stammer', to 'hesitate'. The heathens used to address their gods by a series of titles, with the superstitious idea that the prayer would not be heard unless the right title was hit upon."

It seems to me that there is a consistency in the second phrase of the verse. All these translations imply that the one doing the praying is intent on making himself heard. However, the first part of the verse varies in exactly what is being prohibited. "Babble, rattle on, multiply, repeat, speak much, use many phrases"...they all have different connotations but none apply directly to the rosary, for as you know, the rosary is more a meditation than a prayer. Surely you are aware that rosaries are said with intentions, and that it is the intention that is the simple, non-repetitive prayer, that God already knows about, that our Lord proscribed.(Matt. 6:8 )

I am constantly baffled at how you can practice Catholicism for so long and suddenly become such a spiteful apostate. I don't know if it is a badge of honor to criticize the beliefs and practices of your former faith, but there are times when your feigned ignorance is shameful. Citing other faiths using beads is a shining example of you going out of your way to discredit Catholicism. Shameful. Anyway, your repetitive citation of Matt. 6:7 to condemn Catholics and the rosary are in vain.

Catholics do well to pray the rosary and I would urge them to include RnMomof7 in their intentions.

[Theresa]

"I'm used to the false doctrines and only seek to lay them open."

Groan!!! Why do some Prots talk as if they were from the middle ages...."seek to lay them open"....????

If you don't like the Rosary, don't pray it, and leave us Catholics alone. We don't need critiques ...which we've already heard a thousand times before...it's sooooooo predictable and so boring. And we are not listening anyway.

[Theresa]

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

The Rosary is not a VAIN repetition so this does not apply. You can quote this till the cows come home, there will ALWAYS be people who say the Rosary. Know why? BECAUSE IT WORKS!!! The Rosary is a powerful prayer and it is said all over the world every day because it works as prayer. It is EFFECTIVE or it would not be used as a prayer form.

[RnMomof7]

**
Catholics do well to pray the rosary and I would urge them to include RnMomof7 in their intentions. ***

---

Waste of time Chuck no one is listening...


Repetations in Greek
945 battologeo {bat-tol-og-eh'-o}

from Battos (a proverbial stammerer) and 3056; TDNT - 1:597,103; v

AV - use vain repetitions 1; 1

1) to stammer
2) to repeat the same things over and over, to use many idle
words, to babble, prate. Some suppose the word derived from
Battus, a king of Cyrene, who is said to have stuttered;
others from Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems.



Matthew 6:7 :: New International Version (NIV)

Matthew 6
7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

American Standard

Matthew 6

7 And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Now the LITERAL Translation


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

Matthew 6
7   `And -- praying -- ye may not use vain repetitions like the nations, for they think that in their much speaking they shall be heard,

[RnMomof7]

What do you think Jesus was talking about? Why do you think he gave a pattern for prayer if he wanted us to ignore it?

[MarthaB]

...But when ye pray...

Yes, Jesus gave us the "Our Father" or Lord's prayer, and we say those very words EVERY time we pray the rosary, that is part of it. But that Scripture doesn't forbid us, after we get done saying an Our Father, from also praying the other Bible verses I mentioned in my earlier post, nor does it forbid us from meditating on or pondering the events from Jesus' life which are part of the rosary as I explained.

I don't think most Christians ONLY limit their prayer to the exact words of the Lord's prayer... I've been to Protestant services and prayer meetings with family and friends of many denominations, and I know that you all talk to God, formally and informally, in words that go beyond the Lord's prayer. But we Catholics do pray the Lord's prayer as an integral part of every rosary, and we pray it at every Mass too. We do pray as Jesus taught us, but the Holy Spirit has also taught us, and Christians of many denominations, to go beyond the exact words of Scripture to pray. I know many Christian pastors, friends, and family members of many denominations, and I don't personally know any one who believes that the Lord's prayer is the ONLY prayer we can pray.

[drstevej]

Two governing principles for consideration in prayer:

[#1] Prayer that does not involve the mind and the heart is meaningless and offensive to God. This is the case regardless of the content of the prayer. Both Protestants and Catholics need to guard against prayer that is not genuine communication with God.

[#2] Prayer whose content is contrary to Scripture, that misrepresents the character and work of God and presents requests contrary to His will does not honor God.

The debate over the rosary and prayers to the saints or Mary revolves around this issue.

Worship (including prayer) must be in Spirit [#1] and Truth [#2]. Such worship the Father seeks!

[Joshua]

Your post #114 is very well written.I just have one little problem with it.
The Catholic church did allow abortion of babies up to 40 days. They held the view of Aristotle on this that babies go in stages from vegatable to animal to spiritual.
Gregory VI (1045-1046) and Gregory XIII (1572-85) both said that He is not a murderer who brings about abortion before the 40th day since the embryo is not yet human.
Sixtus V did not agree and his Bull of 1588 made all abortion murder. His successor,Gregory XIV reversed that decree.
In 1621 the Vatican issued another pastoral directive permitting abortion up to 40 days. It wasn't until 1869 that Pius IX made all abortion murder.
I had all of these references on my old hard drive before it crashed. I never had the need to look it up again since I do not follow the Catholic teachings.
There will be some on here that will flame me on this and never bother checking it out. They will scream for me to prove it. I don't need to it is not my faith. I have given you the names of the Popes, their dates and the dates of the directives. With all the knowledgable Catholics on here and the resources they have on the web it should be easy to prove my statements false.
I admit it took some digging but it is out there for anyone who wants to know the truth.

[RnMomof7]

The Our Father was NEVER intended to be a rote prayer..It was intended to be a prayer pattern

Jesus did not say pray THIS .. He said pray LIKE this

Prayer is by His pattern to be God directed..not other directed

The Prayer pattern of the Our Father looks like this

A adoration

C confression

T thansgiving

S supplication

ACTS..

The fact that scripture does not tell you NOT to do something is not approval for it . It does not tell you DIRECTLY not to speed in your car or not to have an abortion ..those things are found in general principles..

In a like way Jesus told you how He wants you to pray and to whom

Prayer to God is not an add on to the rosary

[Joshua]

"Not on your life! That is the Holy Spirit's job! "

And who do you think inspired the bible, Douay-Rheims?

[Joshua]

"But some bigots cannot get beyond their preconceived erroneous conclusions about what the Rosary really is. Despite being corrected time and again. Bigot is indeed the correct word for some folks who keep themselves willfully ignorant about Catholicism. "

Funny that is exactly what we think of you. I wouldn't call you a bigot, willfully ignorant not a bigot.

I followed the Catholic faith for 35 years. I was educated in catholic schools. You can explain the rosary to me all you want been there done that. I say your wrong. If that makes me a bigot in your thinking so be it.

[RobbyS]

Which would be aweful if we were still under the law and bound to the customs of the Jews.

[RobbyS]

Oh boy, is your mind in the gutter!

[RochesterFan]

Let the Bible be your guide...
Not on your life! That is the Holy Spirit's job!

The Spirit illuminates our minds to the Word of God.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.[John 14:26]

and

But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.[John 16:7-14]

and, finally,

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.[2 Pet 1:20-21

In summary, one cannot separate the ministry of the Holy Spirit from the Scriptures. When a believer says, "let the Bible be your guide," the illumination of the Spirit of God is implied.

[D-fendr]

I see you still think a great deal of Mary. It's been how long? Over a year now, that you have had this obsessive thinking and constant postings about Jesus's mother?

It still seems to trouble you, so, as a suggestion, next time it comes over you, try contemplating that it was through Mary that God chose to become man.

In this way, perhaps you can tranform your negative compulsion into a positive spiritual practice.

I know there must be a reason for growth, in some similar way, that she has such a hold on you for so long.