Current status of Mary [Re: Cardinal Ratzinger Does Not Foresee Approval of “Co-redemptrix”]

[Polycarp]

This is a decent summary from a non-Catholic source:

Current status of Mary:

Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status. 

The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:

	1. Mary is the Mother of God.
	2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life.

Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19^th and 20^th centuries:

	3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE.
	4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1

In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:

In ancient times:

	St. Antonius (circa 250 - 350): "All graces that have ever been bestowed on men, all came through Mary."
	St. Bernard (1090 - 1153): "[Mary is called] the gate of heaven, because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her."
	St. Bonaventure (1221 - 1274): "As the moon, which stands between the sun and the earth, transmits to this latter whatever it receives from the former, so does Mary pour out upon us who are in this world the heavenly graces that she receives from the divine sun of justice." 1

1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. ₁

1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. ₁

Circa 1965: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II states, in part: 

"Rightly, therefore, the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God, but as freely cooperating in the work of man’s salvation through faith and obedience. For as St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ...'death through Eve, life through Mary.' This union of the mother with the son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death" 2

"Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress and Mediatrix." 3

1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." ₄

1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." ₁

1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." ₁

Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.

Petition drive to promote an infallible statement:

Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." ₃ Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:

	Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption.
	Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces.
	Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments.

If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. _5,6

[CCWoody]

This from the one who calls Mary Mother of Jesus the "Queen of Hell?"

When did it become hateful to merely quote a Roman Catholic? In addition to all your personal attacks, it seems that you have a definite problem seeing the words of your own fellow Catholics, knowing them for the false teachings that they are.

[Irisshlass]

Really? LOL!!! Don't be so hard on yourself and your friends just because you all write this kind of stuff:


Again you speak no truth..I don't write it..

[Irisshlass]

Um, Irisshlass, you need a towel to wipe that off with?


Show me where I posted, anger, insults, or called anyone a fool?

Keep the towel...

[Matchett-PI]

"One thing that always struck me as humorous about Luther's doctrine is whether he ever wondered how Bibles could have been distributed to all Christians prior to the invention of the printing press."

What strikes me as humorous is the fact that cynical opportunists (like Marx and Barnum) are always able to predict the conclusions that their useful idiots / suckers will arrive at just by planting ideas in their minds concerning things they should "wonder" about.

DemocRATS are experts at using such tactics. LOL

"If true Christians believe the doctrine of "Bible only," then one can only conclude that there weren't any prior to Luther's time."

You're embarrassing yourself.

[Polycarp]

When did it become hateful to merely quote a Roman Catholic?Where exactly did a Catholic FReeper here call Mary the "Queen of Hell"?

Point that out to me, and I will gladly apologize to you for attributing that quote to you.

Otherwise, the things I have stated about you protestants are quite mild and understated compared to the routine comments of the anti-Catholics here.

[Irisshlass]

we expect that the truth we teach will be rejected by the world.

if those that preached it live accordingly to God's Word, maybe it wouldn't rejected...

[Polycarp]

"Keep slogging through all the posts of the bigots here and keep me bumped."

Here's one of my own personal favorites. Its just as appropriate now as the first time I posted it:

Subject: Some thoughts on the "Big Picture," how we got where we are with the culture of death: It all started with ...the Reformation???

I have seen parts of this idea in other writings, specifically Belloc's drawing the arrival of communism back to the reformation, and Kippley relating the sexual revolution to the Lambeth Conference in 1930, and other earlier developments.

This is in response to an attack on Catholicism by anti-Catholic fundamentalists, in case you wonder at my vitriol.

.....

Some thoughts on the "Big Picture," how we got where we are with the culture of death: It all started with ...the Reformation???

Basic Bible Only Christian Assumption: "With the Reformation, God Reformed his church back to what it was by restoring the Truth "

This was neither reformation nor restoration but deformation and revolt.

Fifteen hundred years after Christ, someone came along who was overly scrupulous and could not bear the burden of his guilty conscience. This man was a priest, but could not control his sexual passions. He used some abuses in Christ's Church in a remote corner of Christendom as an excuse upon which to hang his revolt.

So he invented a new false gospel to assuage his guilt and foisted it on the world. Bible books that did not fit his new false gospel were simply removed on his own "authority."

Intrinsic to this new false gospel was a rejection of the authority Jesus Christ Himself gave His Church on earth. That authority willed by God, was replaced with a new "authority," private interpretation of scripture.

However, the genie was now out of the bottle.

First man rejected the authority of God to give authority to the very Church He created.

Then man questioned the authority of scripture itself, and whether God was truly Creator.

Then man questioned not only the authority of God but His very existence.

Now man declares, GOD ID DEAD.

And if GOD IS DEAD, the final, natural conclusion of rejection of God's authority started 500 years ago, then man can do anything he damn well pleases to anyone. Might makes right. There is no such thing as "wrong." There is no authority upon which to hang any code of morality.

The twentieth century

In 1930 mainstream "Bible only" protestantism fell into apostasy regarding contraception. Christianity always taught contraception was intrinsically evil. (This was ALL Christians, for ALL time, not just Catholics. The point isn't even open for debate. I can quote hundreds of protestant reformers and subsequent protestant theologians and writers, up to this very day, to prove this was the continual teaching of Christianity.)

This apostasy on contraception is the very root cause of abortion. Abortion follows the acceptance of contraceptive mentality as night follows day. In Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the US Supreme Court decision that confirmed Roe v. Wade [U.S. decision to permit abortions] stated "in some critical respects, abortion is of the same character as the decision to use contraception... for two decades of economic and social developments, people have organized intimate relationships and made choices that define their views of themselves and their places in society, in reliance on the availability of abortion in the event that contraception should fail." As Professor Janet Smith points out, "The Supreme Court decision has made completely unnecessary, any efforts to "expose" what is really behind the attachment of the modern age to abortion. As the Supreme Court candidly states, we need abortion so that we can continue our contraceptive lifestyles."

Furthermore, because mainstream protestantism and "Bible Christianity" in general condones non-procreative contraceptive sex, they have no moral authority upon which to preach against non-procreative homosexual sex. Thus the homosexual agenda juggernaut is directly a result of the apostasy of "Bible Christianity" on the birth control issue, as well as the reluctance of the Catholic hierarchy and priesthood to promote Humanae Vitae and the Church's true teachings on sexuality in general.

And if you can kill the innocent baby in the womb, why not granny in the nursing home? Euthanasia too is becoming widespread, as a result of the acceptance of abortion, which came from apostasy on the birth control issue.

The widespread acceptance in American culture of the culture of death --abortion, contraception, homosexuality, euthanasia-- lies squarely on the backs of those who apostatized on the life issues several decades ago. They apostatized because of private interpretation of scripture.

All because a man 500 years ago placed his own new false gospel of the "Bible alone" and "private interpretation of scripture" above the authority Christ Himself established as the protection against the destruction of the Gospel message Christ entrusted to His Church.

***

Atheism, the contraceptive mentality, acceptance of abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, the Culture of Death...pity...these are the fruits of the so-called "restoration" that was the protestant "reformation."

Yes, of course, the roots of all evil are in Original Sin.

But Christianity was making inroads against these evils till this revolt's natural consequences, over several ensuing centuries, reversed the trend.

Sorry if this offends my protestant brethren. But I will not be shamed into silence. I'm sick of the ignorance and blindness to the brutal reality of the consequences of this so-called reformation within modern protestantism, and the growing anti-Catholic attitude I'm seeing all too often lately.

The answer does not lie in a further protestantization of Catholicism. We either go back to the ways of God and the order Jesus Himself ordained, a teaching Church with a magisterium and Pope, lead and protected by the Holy Spirit, or we go forward into oblivion and the culture of death.

[Polycarp]

Here's another one of my own personal favorites.

9/15/99, Johnstown Tribune Democrat

That is why I keep smiling. Satan knows the right address. So do I.

by Brian J. Kopp, DPM

     At the Folk Festival Anabaptists protested outside one of the Catholic churches in Cambria City. Down the street, another Catholic church has been gutted of its Catholic identity in the name of "Vatican II." Several years ago, homosexual activists broke into St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City, disrupting the mass and desecrating the Eucharist. Strangely enough, despite these sacrileges I manage to smile.

     Disobedient priests defy liturgical law and deny moral teachings, and our diocesan spokespersons misrepresent the Church's position on central issues such as homosexuality or evolution. Our bishops allow pro-abortion politicians to speak at "catholic" functions while powerful cardinals try to suppress the worldwide ministry of a holy nun in Alabama because she calls a heretic a heretic.

     The media splashes the sexual crimes of Catholic clergy all over the front pages, ignoring the same among other denominations.

     East Timor is suppressed and persecuted by Indonesia, and few report that East Timor, settled by Portugal, is 80% Catholic while Indonesia is Muslim.

     The Russians, under Stalin, murdered over 10 million Ukrainian catholics, but the only holocaust we hear about is the other one. Atheists try to claim the moral high ground, pointing to the Inquisition or the Crusades, while failing to admit to the murder of over 200 million citizens by their atheistic governments over the last 100 years. Western proponents of population control and abortion call for the expulsion of the Vatican from the United Nations in retaliation for the Vatican's efforts against the Culture of Death. Despite all this, I smile.

     Few do evil thinking they are doing evil. Many do evil thinking they are doing good. Satan uses them, willingly or not, to deliver his message. Satan knows the right address, attacking the "pillar and foundation of truth, the Church of the Living God." (1Tim: 3:15.) His attacks on Christ's Church, coming from within and without, will never end. Our faith in Jesus Christ and His Church should never end either. That is why I keep smiling. Satan knows the right address. So do I.

[Irisshlass]

This is not an admonition NOT to judge false doctrine..it was a warning to make righteous judgement ,,,

The posting of scripture had nothing to do whether a doctrine is false or not..it had to with the conduct of certain people here who behave not accordingly to scripture.

[Codie]

15. NECESSITY OF FAITHAND GOOD WORKS -- "What does it profit&…;though a man says he has faith and have not works? Can faith save him? (James 2:14) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. (James 2:26)

I have absolutely no problem with these passages.Why would you?

[RnMomof7]

This apostasy on contraception is the very root cause of abortion.
...Furthermore, because mainstream protestantism and "Bible Christianity" in general condones non-procreative contraceptive sex, they have no moral authority upon which to preach against non-procreative homosexual sex.

Hypocricy

The abortion index by religion during 1994-1995 was found to be:

Protestants: 0.69
Followers of a non-Judeo-Christian religion: 0.78
Catholics: 1.01%
Jews: 1.08
Persons who do not follow an organized religion: 4.02

1999

Attorney Tom Smith, who has represented about a dozen clients seeking damages from abortion clinics, writes: "Minors are the group most likely to be ambivalent; some fail to involve their parents and represent 20 percent of abortions. Women having repeat procedures represent 47 percent of all abortions. Those with strong religious convictions are a significant percentage of the 30 percent Roman Catholic women getting abortions and 16 percent who consider themselves born again Christians.

If you choose to use Birthcontrol and abortion as proof of correct doctrine you had best examine your own Church Poly

[RnMomof7]

So then God is in YOUR debt..He owes you something?

[Matchett-PI]

"JESUS CHRIST ESTABLISHES HIS CHURCH IN 33 A.D"

Correction --- that is the New Testament church which is based on better promises than his Old Testament Church. (Like a more PERFECT PRIESTHOOD, for instance).

You remember --- that was the church that had the Old Testament (God breathed) Scriptures from which Jesus quoted.

[Codie]

Nope,I figure I owe him something.

[MarMema]

Palamite controversy

Rnmom, am I correct in my thinking that most protestants believe that God can be known from a personal experience?

[CCWoody]

Atheism, the contraceptive mentality, acceptance of abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, the Culture of Death...pity...these are the fruits of the so-called "restoration" that was the protestant "reformation."

What weed have you been smoking? We left the Culture of Death when we left the Roman Catholic Church. Good grief, the Culture of Sodom is the fruit of the Catholic Church.

[Codie]

What weed have you been smoking? We left the Culture of Death when we left the Roman Catholic Church. Good grief, the Culture of Sodom is the fruit of the Catholic Church.

Angry words often bounce back at the most inconvenient time.

[JesseShurun]

You are confusing Mom with the OT prophets and with the NT disciples.

[JesseShurun]

You liked me when I told you to make a little shrine for Mary in the high places amid the oaks. You chuckled when you thought I was calling Matchett a false prophet and a fool when in reality the verse was in the midst of God's condemnation of Israel for worshipping idols and not learned enough to discern a false prophet from a true one. So when I mislead you and you agree with me, you are happy. When I tell you what the Word really says, you have a little tantrum. Matthew 11,16-17.

[Codie]

A Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi

Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
Where there is injury, pardon,
Where there is doubt, faith,
Where there is despair, hope.
Where there is darkness, light,
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master, grant that I may
not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
To be understood, as to understand;
To be loved, as to love;
For it is in giving that we receive-----
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.