Posted on 10/07/2002 1:03:41 PM PDT by Polycarp
<> Interesting perspective. Think of that from another angle. Adam was created from an uncursed Earth. Ought he have been accorded a higher priviledge than Jesus? To me, it makes sense that Jesus, the Second Adam, would be born of an uncursed Virgin. Nice symmetry, no?<>
Greek and Roman mythology tell of Gods coming down and having sex with humans, and essentially that's what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception puts forth.
<> Essentially, that is ignorance masquerading as scholarship. The Immaculate Conception does NOT refer to how Jesus took on Human Nature.<>
<>
I have every respect for Mary as a saint and a good example of submission to the will of God. It's the Roman Marian doctrines to which I am hostile.
<> The Catholic Church teaches with the authority of Christ. Reject the Teachings of the Pillar and Ground of Truth and you reject Jesus.<>
Why this work will be done in no time! remarked Rabbi Woody.
Rabbi Jesse disagreed. Once we're done,he said, we have to start over again and again until we or the oxen fall over dead.
But these oxen will never die! Rabbi Woody said.
You are learning, Rabbi Jesse said. Now, there's only 41 more fields to plow.
Why not Jesus' other brothers and sisters (us?)
Why not Jesus' grandparents?
Where back the line do you decide the Son isn't impressed with his ancestors?
Your scripture speaks to that at some point in that ancestral lineage...."clean coming out of an unclean."
So, DrJ, the Bible is silent with rebuttal, is it?
If by silence, then you mean to ignore what is convincing other people, then I (for me) don't like that argument about silence before silence.
Hahn admits in his book that there is no scripture about the immaculate conception. The only scripture he finds about the assumption is the Rev passage about the woman caught up to God's throne.
Despite the paucity of evidence and the paucity of argument from our perspective, if others like the evidence, then what is your rebuttal?
I agree! But I'm disapponted, Jesse, that you forgot to mention sandyeggo's "other person" (Adam) in the garden, and "me" --- Polycarp's "Jacka$$". LOL
To Matchett-PI:
"Your other person in the garden should have had some B*lls."
302 posted on 10/4/02 by sandyeggo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 302 | View Replies |
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/761987/posts?page=302#302
To Matchett-PI:
"I was pinged to this thread multiple times, Jacka$$."
419 posted on 10/4/02 by Polycarp
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/761987/posts?page=419#419
Not fair, JeShu....Rabbi X would've said, "YOU SCHLEPP, your contractor calvin...ditto..."
Certainly. And for you, I'll even be caddy. ("Your HolyPolyPopeNess, what club here?" "Ahh, astute question, my son. We would recommend the Council of Trent 9 Iron Club.")
(And since I'll obviously never be PopePolyCarp, this really isn't a sacriligious attempt at humor. But it is a poor attempt. Hit 'em straight and long.)
now you've gotta read Rn & Fru's good comments. you've got a degree, dude...put that noggin to work.
Regarding the Immaculate Conception, Jesus took 100% of his humanity from his mother. It would seem only fitting that Mary would be sinless to pass on her genetic code to her son.
In addition, I believe we are in agreement that Mary is the second Eve (as forementioned in Genesis) and Eve was created sinless. It is logical that Mary was also created sinless.
To me, Immaculate Conception is not a difficult concept considering that God chose Mary to carry His humanity, Jesus Christ, who was fully God AND fully Man. And Mary, of her free will, said YES to God (which, He of course knew she was going to do).
God bless!
No, they're just unchristian!
That's a good argument, imho, because the immaculate conception is based purely on "filial affection" and on no scripture according to Hahn.
In the absence of scripture on the "ic" side, then scripture about the sin nature must be allowable on the Marian Sin side.
All Catholic prayers are sent to God. We ask Mary, the angels and saints to pray FOR us. In the Hail Mary, for example, we say, "Hail Mary, Mother of God, PRAY FOR US SINNERS." We are asking for her intercession, because we know she is in Heaven and closer to God. When we pray to the saints in heaven, we are not asking THEM to grant us grace or mercy or forgiveness or anything, we are asking them to PRAY TO GOD FOR US, because we believe they are closer to God.
Catholics pray directly to God. Catholics ask others to pray for them, to God. There is no difference in asking a saint to pray for us than asking our best friend to pray for us -- except that the saint is in heaven.
God bless.
<> Scott Hahn is a brilliant man. You have "proved" no such thing. The only thing you prove, on a daily basis, is that you are among the most UnChristian individuals on these theads.
Now, Scott is, I guess, "unregenerate," and who would know with more accuracy than Rnmom who reads the intent of others and routinely tells others they are going to Hell.
This is a learned and highly intelligent man and when he gives of himself to share his love of Scripture with others, I am not surprised to see Rnmom claim his real intent is to "get attention," and he is a mere "token convert," instead of giivng him his just due.
Scott says his conversion is genuine, that it cost him MANY friendships, a good paying job etc etc. IMMATERIAL, the Calvinists tell me otherwise. Who am I to listen to the one who actually went through that conversion process and writes and speaks about it with such passion and conviction when I have my handy-dandy Calvinist Interpreter, Rnmom, who will tell all and sundry what Scott REALLY experienced and intended?
If they were not so evil, your actions would be funny. I guess this is just more proof you have been predetermined for Heaven and those that disagree with you are predetermind for Hell.<>
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