New Forms of Incense in LA Cathedral

TCRNews.com ^ | Sept 3, 2002 | TCRNews.com

[Theresa]

"Let the ultra-traditionalist critics prefer this or that kind of architecture, this or that age or style of song, but so long as the essential elements of the Catholic Mass remain in place, it is a matter of taste, not orthodoxy. "

Yup.

[narses]

See Steven Hand defend the NewChurch of Roger Mahony.

[sinkspur]

I have been amused to watch various extremists suggest the nuns look more like "wicca priestesses" than Catholic nuns. That is simply preposterous, even if I might prefer the old way of incensing the altar.

Hand reads Free Republic, and read your post, narses.

He's nailing YOU, as an extremist.

You did get quite a wedgie over this innocuous display.

Did you object to the native Indians dancing at the conclusion of the Holy Father's Mass in Mexico City last month?

Inculturation in liturgical non-essentials is an added personal expression of praise.

[Cvengr]

I use incense when the restroom fan isn't powerful enough. Larger building , larger incense holder,...I guess.

[patent]

Are you suggesting that Mahoney's Cathedral stinks?

;-)

patent

[ultima ratio]

Nope. The essential elements are present at a Black Mass--but it is still an abomination. Non-essentials matter.

[ultima ratio]

Think about it. These Indian women were "exorcising" demons from the Vicar of Christ in the middle of a papal Mass for the canonization of men who died in order to rid the world of such pagan ceremonies. Meanwhile the Tridentine Mass of the ages is kept under lock and key, as Christopher Ferrara recently pointed out. Hello? Anybody home? You think Catholicism is having some kind of nervous breakdown?
Somebody sure is looney--and it's not traditional Catholicism!

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I wonder if Mother Angelica will weigh in on this latest fiasco. Was this covered on EWTN?

[Theresa]

"Non-essentials matter."

"In essentials, unity, in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things charity." Pope John XXIII, Ad Petri Cathedram and popularly attributed to St. Augustine

[Jeff Chandler]

I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about ; )

[ultima ratio]

What is non-essential for the validity of the Mass is often essential to liturgically express the faith. The idea of propitiation is an essential doctrine of the faith. But its absence in a liturgy would not render the Mass invalid--though it would render it offensive.

[Jeff Chandler]

Was this covered on EWTN?

I think MTV would be more appropriate.

[ninenot]

but so long as the essential elements of the Catholic Mass remain in place, it is a matter of taste, not orthodoxy.

The author could not be more wrong.

Granted, the 'essential elements' are necessary. Taste, however, must be formed in orthodoxy and then deployed. This rather blase remark demonstrates a profound ignorance of the term 'culture,' and the individual should be returned to school for some genuine learning.

[ninenot]

The broader aspect involves the definition of 'culture.' Culture necessarily derives from 'cult.' Thus, it can be quite plain to an observer exactly what is the object of cultic worship simply by noting the 'peripherals.'

No question that incense is a part of the Catholic culture, at Mass and at devotions. Also no question that priests, deacons, and altar BOYS have swung censers. (In convents, nuns have, I suppose.)

But to define all but the text of the Mass and the celebrants' intention as 'peripherals,' or 'matters of doubt' is not realistic in the least.

[Polycarp]

I'd comment but it just ain't worth the effort any more...

[NYer]

I wonder if Mother Angelica will weigh in on this latest fiasco. Was this covered on EWTN?

Mother suffered a major stroke last year. Half her head is paralyzed but she is still in charge. EWTN DID NOT cover the dedication ceremony. No surprise since Mother Angelica and Roger Mahony locked horns a while back.

[Conservative til I die]

I have to disagree. Using the "essentials/non-essentials" logic, holding mass in a giant trash dumpster, as long as the essetntials are there, is A-OK? Maybe so, but to me it reduces the spirituality of the Mass greatly.

[Salvation]

I was right yesterday when I posted on three threads that they were incensing the new altar!!!

[Sock]

Taste, however, must be formed in orthodoxy and then deployed.

Absolutely, and in my best impression of a Protestant minister, AMEN, BROTHER!

The author of this essay is in denial as he continues to defend the indefensible. He has written many worthwhile things in the past, but he loses credibility with this kind of BS and I doubt if even Joe pew warmer would buy it.