In Hoc Signo Vinces - The Vision of Constantine

Triumph [the book] | H. W. Crocker III

[JMJ333]

And your attempt to paint us as mass murderers that have dragged the world into the pit of hell is laughable. I can almost see you cursing with anger that this article dared be complementory toward the pukey Christians. Actually, I am used to people like you. Your type is real predictable.

[JMJ333]

Oh I see...its just Catholics you hate. Gottcha.

[Commander8]

I don't hate Catholics, I was merely stating historical fact. You are being oversensitive.

[JMJ333]

The truth is that his vision is really the figment of some Medieval poet's imagination. Constantine basically had what amounted to a temporary fox hole conversion. After the battle he went back to worshipping his pagan son god.

Really? Is that why Constantine and his legions painted crosses on the shields and helmets during the battle of Milvian Bridge? Its not like this is some figment. Its documented. But I'm sure you can find a way to dismiss it since the article makes the Catholic Church look good. Well too bad, it didn't work.

And of course you show your lack of knowledge on history by stating that Constantine had a foxhole conversion. The fact is that Constantine remained loyal to the Catholic church even when it cost him his popularity. After the Nicene council, he traveled to Rome as part of his 25 years as emperor. There, when he refused to partake in Pagan ceremonies, riots erupted and a statue of him was literally defaced by mob thrown rocks.

And Constantine was officially received in to the CATHOLIC church on his deathbed. So much for your newspeak rewriten history.

[JMJ333]

I was merely stating historical fact.

Historical fact? You didn't prove anything but the fact you don't know history. Where did you learn this stuff from? Doris Kerns Goodwin?

[american colleen]

Thank you for a great historical post. Many non-Catholics malign Constantine and try to promulgate the theory that the early Christian Church went "corrupt" around 320ish because of him (and the "real" Christian Church went underground from then until the Reformation), but I've never seen anyone address how the "corrupt" Catholic Church of 367AD was able to determine which books of the hundreds of forgeries floating around were Inspired and belonged in the Bible that they (non-Catholics) accept as God's Word.

The first list of the books that should belong to the Bible was put together in the 39th Pastoral Letter of Saint Athanasius, the bishop of Alexandria, in 367AD. The said list was then confirmed by the Council of Hippo in 393AD, Council of Carthage in the year 397, Pope Innocent I in 405AD, and finally, by the Council of Trent in 1546.

God works in mysterious ways. Look how he used Constantine.

[Commander8]

Read this:
http://www.picknowl.com/au/homepages/rlister/baphist/blood/trail.htm
A friend of mine gave me a print copy of The Trail of Blood by JM Carroll a few months ago. I was skeptical about it at first, but after I did some more resaerch I became more convinced.

[JMJ333]

. Many non-Catholics malign Constantine and try to promulgate the theory that the early Christian Church went "corrupt" around 320ish because of him (and the "real" Christian Church went underground from then until the Reformation)

Oh, so that's it. Maybe they can get Michael Rivero to link up "what really happened" on his website.

I should be used to the attacks by now, but sometimes I just fly off! He came on the thread and basically accused us of being mass murderers and then says I'm over sensitive when I flame him for his dumb post. And of course, I was supposed to look at his profile first--out of sheer curiousity of him I suppose.

[JMJ333]

Your link doesn't work. But regardless, I'm not interested in the baptist blood trail. I'm interested in the truth about Roman History--something which you don't have.

You have yet to disprove the article-- or my assertions regarding Constantine, or the info put up by Dr. Carroll on the Inquisition.

[JMJ333]

More from Crocker:

Some have argued that Constantine's legacy is mixed, that his support for Christianity came at the price of severely compromising the church by making its operations part of imperical policy. Without Constantine's defending word, the Catholic church faced the prospect of endless persecution. Without Constantine taking a hand in church affairs, providing common sense, the threat of force, munificent sums, and marvelous basilicas, the arian controversy or any other virtually innumerable heresies might, in combination have fractured the church into non-existance.

Constantine began the creation of a christian empire, furthering Christ's call to the apostles to bring the faith to all the peoples of the world. It was Constantine's great delight that even delegates from outside the empire attended the Nicene Council. The model for Christian society took place under his watch.

Constantine provided the starting point for the divine right of kings as the guardians of the world until the liberal, secular democracy altered the equation by making religious indifference the paramount value....

[St.Chuck]

When he merged the Church of Rome with the Roman Empire, it kicked off the Dark Ages which gave us the Inquisition, the Borgias, the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre, the Gun Powder Plot and a millennium of corruption and bloodshed that lasted until the rise of republics and democracies which followed the fall of the feudal kingdoms.

Are you saying that with the rise of republics and democracies corruption and bloodshed disappeared? On the contrary, violence and human evil has only escalated. "The dark ages" were times of unparalleled tranquility compared to what followed. Your knowlege of history is completely incomplete.

[american colleen]

I should be used to the attacks by now, but sometimes I just fly off! He came on the thread and basically accused us of being mass murderers and then says I'm over sensitive when I flame him for his dumb post.

To be deep in history is to be a Catholic, you and I know that. Funny that it's OK to read a Baptist version of the history of Christianity (probably written in the 20th century) and that is supposed to be taken as seriously as the Bible is, but it isn't OK for them to read the Early Church Fathers! I love it when you (Catholics) quote the Church Fathers who studied under the apostles or were close in history to them, and we get "Well, where is that in the Bible?" but we are supposed to read the Baptist Trail of Blood (and other modern biased writing of history) and take something written in the last 50 years or so as more truthful than a disciple of an apostle - ha ha!

[Domestic Church]

Fabiola Bump!

[Antoninus]

Any idea how widespread the Christian faith was at this time? Would the empire had gone Christian eventually?

Estimates vary, but it's thought that about 15% of the Empire was Christian at this time. More in the Greek east, less in the Latin west.

[Antoninus]

And if so, they HAD to be executed under Roman law. One could say that Constantine did not make any expections to the law, not even his own family. Something to think about anyway.

Let's not forget that there was a tradition of reverence for the rule of law among Romans going back all the way to Junius Brutus, the founder of the Roman Republic, who had his own son killed after he disobeyed a direct order in the field of battle. This incident is particularly amazing because this son's disobedience led directly to a victory in the given battle.

[Domestic Church]

Thank you for this keeper! Another home education history lesson (and I wrote down the book & author too.)

[Theresa]

Three cheers for St. Constantine! Hip hip hurrah!!! Hip hip hurrah.!!Hip hip hurrah!!!! In your face baaaaby!!!

[Antoninus]

Constantine still gets more credit than Galerius, IMO. After all, his edict was motivated out of gratitude, not political calculation, and he never revoked it later, as Galerius might have done.

Galerius really can't get much credit at all considering he was a persecutor. And doesn't Eusebius claim that Galerius only issued this proclamation while deathly ill -- being eaten by alive by swarms of worms, as a divine punishment for his wicked life?

[JMJ333]

You're welcome! I have loved every chapter of this book and recommend it highly! I have an interview he gave to the wanderer--it is fabulous. I'll ping you to it so you can get a better flavor of the book. Cheers!

[JMJ333]