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I say Amen!!! |
Posted on 08/06/2002 5:10:58 PM PDT by nickcarraway
One picture told it all: At Toronto's airport, the world's eye caught little ten-year-old Georgia Rae Giddings as she emotionally burst into tears after Pope John Paul II embraced her. For the next hour, she recalled the moment repeatedly before crowds of journalists. "When I stood in front of the Pope, I just got dizzier and dizzier," she said.
"Out of Step" with the Contemporary World
She's not the only one. Many of the million or so attending the World Youth Day celebrations reported the same phenomenon.
Most people would be astonished to hear that the Holy Father might be the most beloved person in the world among young people. After all, we're always told the Catholic Church's message is irrelevant, outmoded and - worst of all - square. Cynics charge it has nothing meaningful to say to today's fun-loving, hedonistic youth.
According to the press, polls repeatedly show the Pope's relentless opposition to contraception, abortion, homosexuality, pornography, pre-marital sex, easy divorce and other fruits of the sexual revolution is anathema to the modern and fashionable. (It goes without saying that no one knows the mind of the modern and fashionable like the media.) The Holy Father, they conclude, is out of step with the contemporary world.
A Rebuke to the Modern Age
Okay, then how do you explain nearly a million kids at the Pope's World Youth Day? And where else would the gathering of that many youngsters be termed a "disappointing" turnout?
Perhaps it's because young people's love for the Holy Father is a direct rebuke to the modern age, and thus to its primary megaphone, the modern journalist. No institution has been a more powerful force for secularism, materialism or sexual freedom than the media.
Most reporters today are alienated from religion, looking at faith as little more than an ancient superstition. They don't understand it, so they don't cover it - unless a "religious" story involving scandal or human weakness pops up. That they comprehend.
In listening to World Youth Day participants speak, their deep affection for the Holy Father is clear. The same words keep popping up over and over to describe him - "radiance," "hero" "world's role model," "leader of youth," "our rock," "following in St. Peter's footsteps," and "the person closest to Jesus."
Thus, reasons for the Pope's youthful legions are quite simple: When young people see the weary, lined, rugged, leathern visage of the Holy Father, they see the face of love. Not love the way Hollywood loves them - as walking wallets, rear ends in movie theaters, pairs of ears to listen to the latest CDs - but real affection, from someone who sees them rightfully as precious individuals with eternal souls. And when the Vicar of Christ's deep, aged, honeyed voice is intoned, it seems they're hearing the very Words of God.
An Inexhaustible Treasure of Grace
This, then, is the Papal appeal to the young: faith, as the steadfast leader of the Church, the eternal Bride of Christ; hope, offering refuge for the restless heart; and love, from a elderly man walking in persona Christi. Of these, as St. Paul says, the greatest is love.
This is what Georgia Rae Giddings reacted to. After telling the Pope she loved him, he tenderly stroked her head and whispered gently that he loved her too, the perfect personification of Cardinal Newman's great motto of "Heart Speaketh to Heart." It's hard to imagine any other world leader reacting this way to the presence of an unexpected young stranger - so fearless, so compassionate, so Christlike.
No wonder kids love him.
Catholicism may be known as the Old Faith, it's the Young Faith too, with a remarkable, time-tested ability to outlive every fad that mocks it as passe. Each Catholic generation discovers anew the richness and power of their ancient religion, finding within it an inexhaustible treasure of grace and beauty, boundless as the sea. Once that discovery is made, as a million young pilgrims recently learned, no worldly interest can ever again quite satisfy.
I disagree, and I would submit that you have more than just a little "subjective involvement" that would taint your analysis.
Most Catholics do not even know what "Calvinist" means nor the connotation that strict Calvinism carries re: real hardcore anti-Catholicism.
But even fewer Joe-six-pack Catholics are even aware that schismatic traditionalism exists.
Your average Catholic is much more likely to encounter the anti-Catholicism engendered by Calvinistic thought than the anti-post conciliar agenda of schismatic traditionalists.
But when the two join hands and work synergistically, a real threat emerges that rank and file Catholics cannot ignore and have a duty to repel.
Fewer Catholics know who the Jansenists were. More Catholics know the Bob Jones University and Jack Chick type anti-Catholicism than the problems of Jansenism.
Most Catholics know that the local independant/evangelical/born-again/bible-only "Christian" church poses more of a threat to their faith, because almost all Catholics have at least one disgruntled or divorced "Catholic" friend or relative who has "converted" to these fundamentally anti-Catholic churches.
Always go with your first impression. I wish I had.
I went off to argue about trasngendered people making strides in acceptance with lawsuits. Anything is better than watching the scismatics and protestants rip JP.
Here is your answer in a nutshell, DrStevej.
Traditionalist orders, whether they be Indult, Lefebvrist, sedevacantist or Feeneyite, also tend not to aggressively seek parishoners from the mainline Catholic parishes. They don't send people out to street corners or to mainline parish parking lots to hand out leaflets. They don't go out looking for you; you have to go out looking for them.
If you are frustrated, do you attend Mass regularly? If yes, and aren't being fulfilled spiritually, maybe it's time for a new parish. Or confession. Or looking at your own faith and devotion and not the faith and devotion (or lack thereof) of those around you.
I hope you take my comments in the spirit they are intended. God bless you.
I suppose I share some responsibility in this, for taking you on. Had I not posted as I did, the acrimony might not have sparked, and for that I am truly sorry. Anytime there is dissension, we know who is at work.
As always, it is sad to me that our church, OUR CHURCH, has been publicly characterized as a church of "voo-doo worshippers" and mass murderers on this thread.
At the same time, I'm reminded of what Christ said about coming to earth for the sick and the sinners.
And, as always, I'm encouraged by my faith.
Please read Lux Mundi. It begins this way:
"I am a Catholic – without sadness, without shame, and without any of that silly “Catholic guilt” I hear about. The Catholic Church needs no human defense, for the light streaming from God on high is sufficient to enlighten every man coming into this world concerning the truth. Nonetheless, because men in these days have freely chosen blindness, because they have freely chosen to harden their hearts, and because their attacks upon the truth display the most vitriolic contempt, their self-inflicted infirmity must be addressed, even though screams and moans may come from the infirm. It is the only charitable thing to do."
It continues:
"To all of you out there who are willing to think the matter through with me, I say that the argument is always the same. Either the Church originates from God or the Church originates from men. Now, “if this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God.”(Acts 5:38-9)
And...
"The more the wretchedness of Catholic leaders is brought to light the better. For if the Church is of God, then even the most furious attack upon it, even the most evident dirty truth about Her leaders -- no matter what its magnitude, no matter what its duration, no matter what its degree of intensity -- all of the efforts of those who would destroy the Church will come to nought. All the power and the influence of the media, the secularists, the skeptics, the Catholic bashers and the bigots, all of it will come to nothing, even though we ourselves hand them ammunition so damaging that they could ask for none better. That is why I relish these days, for in these days the invincible stability of the Church is shining brightly. The evil, both within the Church and without, only shows that God is with us, that it is God Himself who stabilizes the Catholic Church. It is God who vouches for Her message. It is God who is telling the story that the Church is constantly telling about Herself. The Church is not merely the product of man."
If you do not believe this,ultima, you should stop calling yourself a Catholic, imho.
I appreciate the additional information you have furnished in this thread about your experience with the Church.It does allow us to gain a certain insight,given what we have seen in the media from others who shared your situation in the seminary and were disgusted with what they saw. None of us can judge, but we can all say we understand what the experience of sin is like -- we have all been both victims and perpetrators. And one seems to beget the other.
The thing I admire so much about the pope is that he realizes salvation isn't a popularity contest. He knows that Christ knows all of our hearts. And he knows that ultimately, Christ will be the judge of all our actions.
That is not to say the sexual abuse scandal in the Church should be lightly dismissed. It should not be. And if truth be told, any Catholic who was paying attention was aware long before the scandals broke that there were serious problems within the U.S. Catholic church long ago.
This is not the time nor the place to list those problems, as so many others have done. Infighting is NOT unique to the Catholic church, not that it matters. What does matter is our faith, our belief, our willingnes to stand up for those beliefs and act on them. None of us are anywhere near perfect in that regard, and the U.S. Catholic church is sorely in need of reform. I believe JP II knows this. But he may also realize that the U.S. church is so fragile right now that his approbation might only serve to further criticism. If, for example, Cardinal Law was removed from his post, or ex-communicated, more than one person would say..."That's all well and good, but where were you 20 years ago, before Johnny got raped?"
Expediency? Perhaps. But it's not, unfortunately, for you or me to judge. We're Catholics, remember? Or so you say.
The answer to all of this, all of it, is prayer. Whether that prayer is in solitary, or in community with others, or with clergymen, or at Mass, Christ does heal.
Sometimes it takes decades, but healing does take place.
One more thing: the Catholic Church will NEVER cater to the whims of everybody. I would prefer the song "They'll know We are Christians by Our Love" to be sung at every mass. But I haven't heard it for years. On the other hand, at the funeral of my father (a converted Protestant), they did sing "The Old, Rugged Cross." And I have heard "Amazing Grace" at Mass more times than I can count.
Music is a tool to touch the heart. And as far as World Youth Day is concerned, anything connected with God and Christ that touches the hearts of young Americans these days is good.
In a certain way, it seems to me Vatican II was an attempted "reformation" of the Roman Catholic Church. It seems to have been largely successful as such, for the Church seems to have subordinated herself to the sentiments and predilections of American liberal, secular culture. Including such ideas as democracy (e.g., the majority rules) and social welfare (e.g., the "preferential option for the poor"). I gather such sentiments were in play with the original reformations of the 16th century, though perhaps in different guise.
I also gather these things hit the Church periodically, over spans of centuries. Somehow the Church that Jesus Christ inaugurated -- the flock that the Shepard has gathered -- continues to survive. Some of the flock dispute with others in regard to doctrine. But they are all still of the same flock.
ultima ratio, I remembered how to spell the Pope's birth name on my drive home: Karol Wojtyla. Sorry for the misspelling in my last reply to you.
ultima ratio, do you see the irony of the Pope's being blamed for the scandal in the American Church? What people really want to blame him for, it seems to me, is for being "ultra-orthodox" (e.g., no female ordination, no abortions, priestly [and religious] celibacy, and prescription of chaste sexual behavior for everybody else).
Yet this scandal has its roots in something that is anathema to the "ultra-orthodox" canon: active priestly homosexuality, run amok in the seminaries, the dioceses, the parishes.
Anyhoot, as I said, Jean-Paul II is no liberal. It's no exaggeration to say that he and Ronald Reagan rung the death-knell for the Soviet empire and World Communism. But that fight continues, as it must. Here's what his colleague, Cardinal Ratzinger had to say about that and related matters:
"The over throw of the structures that cause injustice through revolutionary violence does not ipso facto mean the installation of a just government. All those who sincerely wish for the liberation of their brothers have to reflect on a fact of great relevance to our time: Millions of our contemporaries have legitimate aspirations to the fundamental freedoms they have been deprived of by totalitarian and atheistic regimes, which, in the name of liberating the people, have seized power by revolutionary and violent means. There is no ignoring this shame of our time: It is precisely through the pretense of bringing them freedom that entire nations are kept in conditions of slavery unworthy of human beings. Those who, perhaps out of thoughtlessness, become complicit in this sort of enslavement betray the poor whom they intend to save.” [My bold]
Did Ratzinger address these words to, say, the Soviet Politburo??? No, not at all. The excerpt was taken from “Certain Aspects of Liberation Theology,” which was addressed to such Church luminaries as Cardinals Arns, Lorscheiter, et al., whom I believe were the main champions of the liberal Progressive Church at the time.
But these words seem particularly timely now....
Must run for now. Don’t know if this helps at all, or if you’re still mad at the Pope. He believes that perfect justice is divine. I think maybe you’re a tad skeptical about that! Best regards, bb.
... a/k/a "A &P" catholics (ashes and palms).
You are absolutely right! For many years, I fell prey to the humanist concept that "I am a good person" and didn't need to supplement it with guilt driven sermons delivered by some 'out of touch' priest.
It was the son of friends who brought me back by asking me to be his sponsor at Confirmation. Not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, I accepted, though I had not been inside a church in years. The day of his confirmation, I walked into the local church, sat down and was immediately transformed. Wait, that sounds too melodramatic. It is difficult to find words that describe the emotions that overwhelmed me that day. The parable of the lost sheep would be an apt description. I even soaked up every word of the pastor's homily; I couldn't get enough. When it was over, I didn't want to leave.
Fr. Corapi described this emotion quite well the other night. He cautioned and I agree, that the first wave is one of sheer delight, like the bride and groom on their honeymoon. One must be prepared, though, for the letdown that will come at some point in time, and it does. St. Therese learned how to deal with this. I have not read her book about the levels of faith, but she addresses this there. Mother Theresa knew best how to deal with life and its pressures. She insisted that the members of her order invest a minimum amount of time in prayer each day. If they were delayed, attending to the dying, they were not exonerated from their daily prayers. They went directly to the chapel at 2 or 3am to invest in personal prayer. Mother insisted that the harder the work, the more prayer one needed.
It's a beautiful feeling to come home, but you have to work very hard at maintaining your faith strong.
First we are not the AMCHURCH; we are the Roman Catholic Church in America.
You can not make blanket statements like this.
In my parish:
The old saints are in. Our priest talks about reading the lives of the saints in order to model our lives after theirs. He always tells the story of the saint whenever there is a memorial or a feast.
The Rosary is in. We say the Rosary daily before Daily Mass and we will be starting it next month before the Saturday evening and 3 Sunday Masses.
Our tabernacles is right there in front with a red light for all to see and venerate by bowing (I have a hip problem and cannot genuflect) or by genuflecting when entering or leaving church.
We still doo have kneelers and will keep them.
Yes, we sing Amazing Grace, but we have never sung Rock of Ages. We also sing in Latin and have Benediction and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament.
In our liturgies the Real Presence of the Body and Blodd of Christ is emphasized in homilies by our priest and in requests to remain kneeling during the Great Amen and to genuflect or bow before receiving the Blessed Sacrament under both species.
As I mentioned above, at our Church, genuflection is in.
If people do not wish to receive Communion in the hand they can and still do receive it on the tongue.
And your first statement about Mass being gone. Our Mass is very reverent and quiet, full of grace and worship.
My question to you is................if you are not happy with the Mass you are currently at, then shop around until you find one at which you can genuinely worhsip the Lord and hear the Holy Word with a quiet and reverent heart. Sometimes I think you would rather beat the bushes than look at your own life and what you can do to improve it.
You can not change others. The only one you can change is yourself. The big questions is "Will you?"
And one last request, please stop making these blanket remarks. If you have something to day about a specific topic then please stick to that topic.
Amen!!! Thank you, glorygirl for posting this response. I had never read Lux Mundi before. It is absolutely beautiful.
Several of us have already been down this road with ultima, in the past. IMHO, it must be a painful and devastating feeling to say "NO" to Christ, after having been called to serve. We are all now painfully aware of the perversion that was taking place in the catholic seminaries, during the '80's. While I am not familiar with ultima's present situation, if the call is still there, there should no longer be anything to impede him from responding. From what I hear, many men are signing up, later in life.
May I add you to my ping list?
Body and Blodd
Body and Blood
I have tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat with your story. Thank you for sharing!
It's a beautiful feeling to come home, but you have to work very hard at maintaining your faith strong.
We ALL have to do this.
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I say Amen!!! |
I thank God I'm a Catholic with a wonderful Pope and a beautiful group of fellow Catholics on FR. I cannot regard as real Catholics those who by their words assault the Holy Father, his teaching, and his ministry. They should be out on a riverboat in the Danube where they could trade shouts and insults with the wannabe priestesses and their ersatz Argentine 'bishop'.
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