Letter of Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos to Mgr. Fellay

Una Voce` ^

[ELS]

The fact which trads cannot accept is that most Catholics are tranquilly happy with the Novus Ordo.

That appears to be the propaganda that you have chosen to swallow. There were many faithful Cathoics who did not like having the Novus Ordo forced upon them. They went along out of obedience. The Modernists who forced the Novus Ordo on everyone now use the argument that one doesn't want to force the Tridentine Mass on everyone. How convenient!

I think narses' point was just to make the Tridentine Mass available without indult and let come what may. Pope John Paul II has agreed that the Tridentine Mass was never abrogated.

[narses]

I don't disagree. The point is that the liberals in the hierarchy (and they are legion) HATE the Tridentine Mass. Why? I dunno. THEY will be the potential schismatics if Rome removes the Indult requirement, not good folks like your mom.

[narses]

That's right. A "free market" of liturgies, all valid, will be healthy. My extended family attends the Liturgy of St. John Chrysotom (I bet I butchered his name) to avoid the N.O. Mass. It is a legal, approved Rite (as is the Tridentine). Frankly the highest court in the Catholic Church has found that attending Mass at a SSPX Chapel is valid and not an occassion for discipline (the Hawaii case). Rome has offered to remove the excommunication and give full faculties to all of the priests and bishops of the SSPX in an Apostolic Administration that would open the potential for a world wide Tridentine Rite availability. What the SSPX seems to be holding out for is an acknowledgment that ALL Roman Rite priests may use that Rite. The worry appears to be avoidance of being relegated to a "museum" status. Me, I don't see that. But we are close, very close to a reconcilliation. Remember, Card. Ratzinger has invited SSPX theologians to join in a Curial study of the theological issues surrounding the N.O. ass and the abuses that everyone concedes have occurred in the liturgy.

[sitetest]

Dear narses,

"Just allowing it (which is the last hurdle to reconcilliation) could drive the liberals to schism."

This may turn out to be an auspicious time to allow it.

The liberals would like to leverage the current crisis to their advantage, but recognize that they are far more vulnerable as a result of all that has transpired than are any other group. They're gettiing a little traction with calls to give more "power" to the laity, but frankly, are losing lots more ground at every other point. Many ordinary Catholics are waking from their decades-long sleep and realizing that their are consequences to heterodoxy. They are scarcely going to embrace the heterodox among us as the solution to everything.

This is a bad moment for the liberals to effect a formal schism; few would follow at this point in time. Thus, if our Holy Father were to give permission without restriction for any priest to say the Tridentine Mass, it is likely that the liberals would swallow hard, gnash their teeth, and realize that this isn't the battle that they should pick to fight at this time.

That being said, I don't think that our Holy Father will give such permission, not without some practical restrictions.

The right to say the Tridentine Mass would have to be subordinated to the right of the pastor and the bishop to enforce liturgical disipline in the parish and diocese. It could be a bit disconcerting to show up at Mass one Sunday and discover that the celebrant had decided Saturday evening to reconfigure the interior of the church, and was about to launch into a Mass for which the typical Catholic has no preparation or experience. If the pastor of a parish were to decide that the parish would have one rite or the other, would the other priests at that church, or who occasionally celebrate Mass at that church be governed by that decision? Could pastors institute the old Mass against the wishes of their congregations (my own answer here would be: well, of course - which leads to various other cans of worms)?

I can see that our Holy Father would grant the right to each priest to privately celebrate the Tridentine Mass. I can see a more liberal method for allowing public celebration of it. But to avoid disorder and chaos, it would still need to be regulated. I'm not familiar enough with the SSPX folks to know whether that would be acceptable.

Any thoughts?

sitetest

[Domestic Church]

"The point is that the liberals in the hierarchy (and they are legion) HATE the Tridentine Mass. Why? I dunno. THEY will be the potential schismatics if Rome removes the Indult requirement..."

This is very important to highlight. Why would any Catholic hate any Mass? This is our source and summit of our faith...everytime I hear of a negative reaction to any Mass (granted I am not fond of the "guitar" Mass, Hula Mass, etc. as I don't think they are respectful) I cringe, but a reaction like this which demonstrates a hatred to the Latin Mass indicates the smoke of evil to me. How can we hate Christ in the Eucharist? How can we hate our heritage?

[ArrogantBustard]

How can we hate our heritage?

The modernists do precisely that. Are you old enough to remember when they used to snarl and spit out the epithet "pre-conciliar" against anything remotely traditional? I remember telling one of my professors that the Bible was "pre-conciliar"; she about had a fit of apoplexy over that one. :)

[Sock]

Why would any Catholic hate any Mass?

I don't believe it’s the Mass they hate although they may say so to get a rise out of their audience. There are defense mechanisms involved here and I'm not sure which ones (displacement & rationalization?). It's not the Mass; it's what the Mass represents to these people. It represents an authority that is not their own (Rome), chain of command, Canon law, etc. Plus it represents a threat to the pervasive "pastoral flexibility" which dominates Amchurch.

The same principle applies to the One Dimensional Christians who ridicule the Mother of God and the Eucharist. Mary and the Body of Christ represent (to them), the Catholic Church and the challenge/threat it presents to their own autonomous authority and freedom to do whatever they wish without any higher earthly authority telling them different. The heresy of 'individual interpretation' permits it, you see.

Knowing that there is a large group of apostolic Christians who will prove to you that you are WRONG using the bible itself to do so, is a threat to the ego. Defense mechanisms are the means of coping.

[ninenot]

It is my observation that generally speaking those over the age of 55 prefer the Novus; those between 30-55 are more ambivalent but SLIGHTLY prefer the Novus; and those under the age of 30 who have experienced the Tridentine (and who are not 'practical Protestant/atheist') prefer the Tridentine.

Very odd/interesting.

[Sock]

"Bells and smells..."

Cute, but can be seen as disrespectful.

[Domestic Church]

"There are defense mechanisms involved here and I'm not sure which ones (displacement & rationalization?)."

I am sure you are correct about this but it is more than defense mechanisms on the spiritual level and we have to start focusing on that level as it has been the focus on psychological stuff that has allowed the dissent to flourish.

I suspect (and this is a gut reaction) that there are graces in the universal saying of the latin Mass that we have been shorted. There might be special graces we gain from the saying of the new Mass in vernacular too but Latin is the official language of the Church ...I don't understand why both aren't encouraged as it will only bring us more Grace and we need all we can get at this point.

[narses]

The SSPX accepts the N.O. Mass as valid, the Pope as the head of the Church and all of the Councils of the Church as valid. In fact, they accept, so far as I can see, EVERY dogma, belief and position that every Catholic is required to accept. They are simply disobedient and even that is being (slowly and painfully) repaired. Your post takes an extremists views and tries to pose them as the views of the SSPX. Is that fair? How about Kasper and Kung? Their views are heretical. How about the woman who spoke at the USCCB conference?

[narses]

You have valid points. The problem, to mix metaphors, is that one cannot be "a little bit" pregnant. Regularizing the SSPX is different than the SSJV in Campos. They are, and always have been, a diocesan order. The SSPX is essentially a missionary order with worldwide scope. Once they are regularized, the opening for the Tridentine, no matter how regulated, will create a firestorm amongst the liberals. It works against inculturation, against ecumenicalism, against novelties and liturgical "innovations" and the conservatives in the Church will use it.