Posted on 07/18/2002 12:21:18 PM PDT by nickcarraway
St. Benedict Chapel
521 McCosh Dr., Princeton Halls Subdivision,
Chesapeake, VA 23320
Fr. D. Abbaticchio, OSB
Diocese, SU 10 am, 1st F/Holydays 7:30 pm
OSB stands for Order of Saint Benedict.
Perhaps you will retract your previous statement attributing you visit to an SSPX Chapel.
AB
Sweet talk, Arrogant. No, my "pinhead" self has never visited that Chapel which has magically transformed to a Diocese Chapel with an OSB Pastor. I will check to see if it ever was an SSPX Chapel some 15 years ago. But it probably isn't worth the effort. It is not up to me or anyone to decide whether you are going to hell, and I don't believe that anyone ever said that to you. I am confident that you have made that up along the complete story about the ignorant, self-righteous parishioners. The tale is redolent of viciousness, not veracity. Good, hateful story, though.
IOW, you don't know what you're talking about. I'll concede that a sample of one can't be extrapolated to the larger group. I never said otherwise. But that sample that I saw 15 years ago was a really poor ambassador for the group. I was there, Charlie. I know what I saw, I know what I heard. It was 'way too shocking to forget.
Go HERE, read this:
This was the very first of what is now six known Catholic parishes (Western Rite) inside the Vatican institution. At this parish, all teaching and sacraments are performed according to the Catholic (Tridentine) forms. This same bishop would soon bring about the second Indult parish. In 1992, St. Benedict's Chapel in Chesapeake was acquired by Bp. Sullivan after existing for years as a parish ministered to by priests of each of the SSPX and SSPV in turn. For his own curious reasons, Bp. Sullivan prefers not to have his traditional parishes serviced by the FSSP, but merely by older Benedictine priests to whom he has granted the Indult.
and admit that I know what I'm talking about, and you don't. There's another reference HERE that may shed a little light on the topic. I await your apology, Orual.
AB
A little web research shows the following: Prior to 1992, this church was called "Our Lady of the Rosary Chapel". It was "owned" by an organization called "Traditional Roman Catholics, Inc."
I don't know a lot about "Traditional Roman Catholics, Inc." However, at their website, www.traditio.com, they have a "Q&A" feature with their "independent traditional priest" who essentially rejects the validity of the Mass of Pope Paul VI. According to St. Benedict's website, the chapel offers the Tridentine Mass in agreement with the Bishop of Richmond, under the Holy Father's allowance.
This represents a significant break with the "Traditional Roman Catholic, Inc." organization, as "Fr. Moderator" there seems to hold the "Indult Mass" in contempt.
The website's history of the church indicates that in the past, the chapel sometimes utilized the services of the priests of the Society of St. Pius V as well as those of the Society of St. Pius X. It is unclear whether this assistance was rendered only prior to 1992, when the church's status was regularized, and brought into communion with the Catholic Church. I think that their assistance was terminated after the church was brought back into communion with Rome.
The website further indicates that they currently receive, or will receive in the near future, assistance from the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter.
Thus, today, and even five years ago, this parish was in communion with the Catholic Church, though it is a Tridentine Rite parish.
But prior to 10 years ago, this parish was run in a way that placed itself outside of communion with Rome, and though it appears that it was not organically a part of the SSPX, it's clear that it was closely tied thereto.
The parish's website is: www.stbenedict-chesapeake.com.
sitetest
Its not the novus ordo mass that is irreverent or unorthodox; it's the presider and the congregation that make or break the celebration!
Gee, isn't that Catholic of him. I didn't know he was the Pope and Magisterium rolled into one! ;^)
Bishop Sullivan is an odd duck. I've met him a few times; he's really nice; easy to get along with. That's his problem: he's just so friggin' nice. He allows the Tridentine Mass, but he also allows the Goofball Mass (St. Stephen, Martyr Parish, also in Chesapeake is ... interesting), and everything in between. He exercises no leadership or Episcopal control whatsoever that I am aware of. He has also created an huge 'priest shortage'.
AB
That is a heck of a generalization and does not agree with my experience.
LOL...how right you are. I hope he doesn't come to VA Beach for vacation and then wander into Holy Family or Holy Spirit...he'll be condemning the Novus Ordo forever if he does.
No, it doesn't. It may say something about the bishop of that particular diocese, the pastor of that particular parish and mostly the particular priest at the Mass that you found to be so poorly celebrated...but it says nothing about the intrinsic value of the Mass itself. Is Jesus Christ offered as sacrifice on the altar? Are the bread and wine consecrated and transubstatiated into the body and blood of Our Lord?
I've been to indult Masses in my area that I found to be dreadful...the priest and the altar boys were mumbling the prayers and responses in such low monotones that nobody else in the church could have had a clue as to what was being said. Is that Mass intrinsically superior to the Novus Ordo Mass celebrated at my home parish? I would say no.
You just gotta LOVE this man! The Bishops should listen carefully to Bishop Bruskewitz. He has proven that you can increase vocations without watering down the Faith or relaxing the requirements of celibacy and chastity. If the U. S. Bishops are TRULY interested in the salvation of U. S. Catholics, they will pay close attention to him!
I prefer the "Arrogant" part, it suits you so well.
I was there, Charlie.
For someone so concerned about being addressed with the correct name, I see you prefer to call others by made-up monikers, but you do like to make-up things, don't you? Charlie seems a reasonable name to be called, so feel free to use that along with the other name you called me, "pin head".
See #47. If you read my post thoroughly, I said I would check to see if the Chapel was a SSPX Chapel 15 years ago. When I get absolute confirmation from the only reliable source, I'll let you know. A priest from the SSPX may have been asked to say a Mass there, but that certainly doesn't indicate any affiliation with the Society and I am confident there was never any official affiliation. After all, how many priests know how to say a Traditional Latin Mass these days, how many even know any Latin - an SSPX priest may have just been doing them a favor.
I'm not the one who was engaged in name-calling and being overarchingly rude, there will be no apology forthcoming as you requested. As I said I don't believe any part of your story, especially that parishioners told you that you were going to hell if you went to a NO Mass. It is too silly to contemplate, and impossible for you to defend. "I was there" is not good enough.
Mr. McDuell reports being there 5 years ago, and that the people behaved decently. Perhaps the Benedictines improved their attitudes. One can hope so, anyway.
The fundamental fact remains the I know whereof I speak. By your own admission, you do not. Why don't you grow up, and admit that some Traditionalists are poor exemplars of Christian Charity, and that I had the misfortune to encounter a group of them.
When I get absolute confirmation from the only reliable source
And what is that source, and why should I trust it? Who says it's the only reliable source? Why indeed should I trust you? I've already found errors in your post, and you've heaped calumny upon my head.
It is too silly to contemplate,
I don't really care what you can or can't contemplate. If my own eye (and ear) witness testimony isn't good enough for you, that's your problem. What do you want, videotape? Sworn, signed statements from each parishoner I spoke with? From fifteen years ago? Are you nuts? I didn't go there to do an expose on a bunch of Traditionalists with bad attitudes; I went there for Sunday Mass.
I doubt that I will be replying to any more of your posts on this topic. What I have said is, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, the truth. If you can't handle the truth, too bad. God bless you.
AB
Yes, of course, I know that, I wanted you to read what he said about that Chapel in Virginia.
Why don't you grow up, and admit that some Traditionalists are poor exemplars of Christian Charity, and that I had the misfortune to encounter a group of them.
Some Catholics, some Protestants, some Jews, are also not perfect templates for their religions. Grown-ups know that. It is the child and the immature adult who reacts precipitously, emotionally and without reason. And one does not blanket-condemn, as you do, because of the weak links. Your hatred for the SSPX is pathological and based on one experience which I doubt the veracity of. You paint the whole Society with your broad brush of vileness. Is everyone perfect in the Church you attend?
you've heaped calumny upon my head.
Go back and read your gentle, kind posts to me, Arrogant, and then decide who is guilty of calumny. I tried to inject some humor into this discourse, but you're too filled with anger and a sense of your own absolute righteousness to notice.
I went there for Sunday Mass.
It is difficult to believe that you could have attended a beautiful, dignified, traditional Mass and that you left filled with such hatred and bile. Strange that you hung around a church you had never been to before and engaged the people there in conversation. Doesn't ring true to me. And we both know that they never told you that you were going to hell if you attended a NO Mass. That never happened. Fess up, Arrogant.
And by the way, you said, I've already found errors in your post. Please point out those errors.
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