Recent Activity Between Rome and Society Saint Pius X (SSPX)

Diocese Report blog ^

[Polycarp]

Msgr. Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Saint Pius X Society, declared in an interview that there is a two way rapproachment of the Holy See in regard to theSociety. He indeed received a letter of March 18 from Cardinal Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, where the Cardinal proposes a working group where theologists of the Vatican and Society will study the problem of the Mass. Another letter, April 5 and signed by Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos, prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, proposes to make contact with Mgr Fellay. This last he is said to be ready " to answer positively ". On the New Mass, Bishop Fellay reiterated that he regards it as valid, if there are the matter, form and intention required by the Church, but that it is " dangerous for the faith ". On the statutes of the apostolic administration that Rome proposes, Mgr Fellay declared: " It is a splendid Rolls-Royce, since we would have ordinary jurisdiction, but we hesitate because of the many bumps in the road... ". With the question of knowing if Jean-Paul II would ignore the opposition of the majority of the European bishops, who do not want an agreement to take place, Bishop Fellay answered: " the true solution is in the supernatural means, in fidelity to doctrine, the Truth which does not change ".

(Translated from Monde et Vie, April 18, 2002).

[patent]

Rome gave them permission to celebrate the Tridentine Mass in Rome during the Jubillee (would Rome agree to that if they were truly in Schism?)

FYI, Rome has also allowed Orthodox priests to celebrate Mass in Rome. They are schismaic of course.

patent  +AMDG

[narses]

I wonder, at this point, what Rome thinks schism is? They embrace the heretical "Mass" without any words of consecration of the Abyssinian Church of the East, they retract the excommunications of the "schismatic" Orthodox priests, they embrace and affirm every sacramental act of the SSJV, they publish an Order of the Mass so liberal and ambiguous the Confession of Augsburg allows it's use in certain of their services and they embrace at Assisi almost every false religion known to modern man. From a juridical, legalistic perspective you may be correct, although even that is far from certain. From the perspective of the Faith itself, I don't think so. Like the times of multiple Popes, Roman authority is being questioned on every side. The SSPX is far from alone in that, where they are in a minority is that they do not question the Dogmas of the Faith or the Deposit of Faith, rather they question (and refuse to accept) the ambiguities and abuses of the Faith by the Modernists. When Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos pointed out the SSPX desire to fight modernism, HH said, "that is us!" meaning that is his fight also.

[narses]

Regards 40, I will with time. I heard that from a FSSP priest second hand. I will need to research a bit to document it.

[narses]

7/10/00

Ecclesia Dei Deposes Fr. Bisig
Fr. Arnaud Devillers Imposed
as New Superior General of FSSP

A recent report from the Fraternity of St. Peter meeting in Wigratzbad, Germany states that Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos has replaced Fr. Josef Bisig with Fr. Arnaud Devillers as Superior General of the Fraternity of St. Peter.
There was no election, and Fr Devillers was imposed upon the Fraternity by the Cardinal. A good number of the priests walked out in protest. It is fairly certain that Father Devillers had no idea that this was going to happen.
It will be interesting to see if the Holy See explains why they removed Fr. Bisig and why the election (which would have shown a majority in support of Fr. Bisig) was forbidden.
Fr. Devillers had stated in the past that he did not desire to be the Superior General so there may be some question as to why he is now forced to be the Superior General.
Ecclesia Dei's, Msgr. Camille Perl has openly favored the action of the dissident 16 French priests.
No matter what happens, it remains certain that the traditionalist movement is not built upon personalities or the desire for popularity. The principles that have formed and guided the movement have been in place for decades (actually centuries since the apostolic age). The principles survive no matter who the leaders are. True, the principles need to be incarnated in living, traditionalist parishes, but even with adverse legislation (if it should happen) the idea stays alive among those who believe in the justice and goodness of the cause.

From http://www.latinmass.org/Untit led/articles.html

[narses]

See above, read that in light of the following post (which preceeds in time the removal of Fr. Bisig).

Rumor Three: Father Josef Bisig is about to be replaced as the Fraternity's Superior General, or an apostolic administrator is soon to be named who will take over most of Father Bisig's powers.

Not only is this not accurate, but the request of the Commission Ecclesia Dei that Father Bisig not make personnel changes until a number of administrative issues have been resolved has been rescinded. Father Bisig has the same authority as the elected head of any similar community, such as the Dominicans or Jesuits.

From http://www.latin-mass-society.org/fssp.htm

See also http://www.unavoce.org/Cardina l_Hoyos_Castrillon_letter.htm

For confirmation that the FSSP is "living through a severe crisis" and in a "conflict-ridden situation" currently (not my words, rather those of Dario Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos.

[narses]

See my last post also. It is not "propaganda", it is based on coversations with those who have been involved either first or second hand with the issues involved.

[narses]

Simply put, in Protocol 1411/99 the Vatican has ordered that any priest, even one belonging to an institute enjoying the privilege of using the 1962 Roman Missal, may freely celebrate or concelebrate Mass using the revised Missal of 1970 with no impediment whatever, the will of their superiors notwithstanding. But the Vatican went further, mandating that FSSP priests must say the new Mass or concelebrate under some conditions.

Thus in one brief statement the Vatican repudiated the agreement it had reached with the Fraternity in 1988, and Fraternity liberals, in orchestrating this, relinquished a privilege-exclusive use of the liturgical books of 1962-for which a few thousand priests around the world continue to yearn.


From http://www.latinmassmagazine.c om/semi-traditionalists.asp

[narses]

The viability of the FSSP and other traditional priestly societies is now endangered as the thousands of faithful who have given them financial support, often at the cost of considerable personal sacrifices, did so on the strict understanding that these societies were committed to the exclusive use of the liturgical books in use 1962. Such an understanding is in no way rigid or schismatic, but simply conforms to the clearly expressed wishes of the Sovereign Pontiff in Ecclesia Dei. If this is no longer the case, then many will certainly withdraw their financial support. Is it possible that there are those within the Curia who desire this? What is incontrovertible, is that once protocol 1411 appears in Notitiae, and God forbid that it does, it will appear that the only priestly society whose members are certain use the 1962 liturgical books exclusively is the Fraternity of Saint Pius X. Archbishop Lefebvre withdrew for the 1988 agreement with the Holy See because he felt that the Vatican could not be relied upon to keep its promises. It would appear that there are now powerful forces in the Curia determined to prove that he was right.

From http://www.unavoce.org/violation.htm

[ELS]

patent, there is an FSSP chapel near me and I have spoken to a few parishioners from there. They have said essentially the same thing. narses, I would be interested in any documentation you can find.

[ELS]

Oops! That's what I get for not reading the entire thread first.

[Land of the Irish]

"Archbishop Lefebvre withdrew for the 1988 agreement with the Holy See because he felt that the Vatican could not be relied upon to keep its promises."

And he did so with good reason. The Vatican kept promising him dates for the episcopal consecrations and kept pushing those dates further and further back.

I'll bet the SSPX is closely watching what promises are kept regarding the Campos "reconciliation" due to the Vatican's reneging on the intial agreement with the FSSP.

[narses]

They are. They want the road open, but until then, no matter the vehicle they will remain faithfuly stubborn.

[St.Chuck]

Thanks for the links. In particular, the letter from Cardinal Castrillon Hoyas was enlightening. You had written that communion in the hand was being pushed and that the 1962 missal was being taken away. I don't see any evidence supporting those propositions in any of your links. The cardinal "encouraged" concelebrating mass on Maundy Thursday with the local ordinary. If this extraordinarily reasoned invitation is interpreted as taking away the 1962 missal, I can only describe the conclusion drawn as propaganda. At best. Paranoia is definitely part of the equation.
From firsthand experience I know that the FSSP is not in disarray as you also claim. Each community that I have had the privelege to visit appears to be thriving, engaged in building campaigns, and celebrating the Tridentine mass according to the 1962 missal, solemnly, respectfully, and identically, in far flung geographical locations. It is not a sign of disarray when it's seminaries are bursting at the seams with vocations.
What I see is the SSPX grasping at any possible reason to continue in its current status. It nurtures a climate of distrust by propagating just the kind of false conclusions you have provided. I don't believe its leadership seeks communion with Rome, and I doubt that the laity is very interested either. They are very content to believe that they practice the true faith. THat is why concelebrating the normative rite is such a huge deal to them. They want nothing to do with it. " There are no concecrating words." That is why they will disseminate the lie that the FSSP is being forced to give communion in the hand. They despise the Novus Ordo mass second only to Satan himself.

[narses]

The American FSSP is a far more traditional and conservative group than the French. The European group is pushing for those "reforms" and has support in the Curia for them.

[narses]

An anonymous letter attacking clergy is not an act of charity imho. As for your comments regards Bp. Williamson, he is not the SG, he will not determine policy. The SSPX very clearly is trying to re-engage, every time Rome calls they come, every initiative is met with honest response and in the body of the piece posted above Rome is working with them on the core issues. There are no unresolveable problems here. Just a need for deliberation and charity.

[sinkspur]

There are no unresolveable problems here. Just a need for deliberation and charity.

And a death.

[narses]

We all die Sinkspur, if you are talking about a specific death, where is your charity?

[sinkspur]

We all die Sinkspur, if you are talking about a specific death, where is your charity?

It is not uncharitable to pray for a happy death.