Posted on 06/17/2002 3:10:50 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
Again, jlogajan, you are wading into areas with which you may not be familiar. Yes, many sins described in the Old Testament of the Bible prescribed death as a punishment. Homosexual conduct was one of them; adultery was another; incest was another. Christians believe that God chose a people a long time ago (the Jews), into whom to pound a moral code. The pounding process was long and hard, and people resisted (though those that did not led, on average, far happier and better lives). Christians further believe that God sent Christ to this earth to establish a new and everlasting covenant between Him and us earthlings. Under this covenant, sins were to be forgiven (with true repentance). Homosexuality (the conduct, that is) is still a sin for Christians, but no longer punishable by death. Just as the adulteress in the New Testament was forgiven by Jesus with an admonishment to sin no more.
Then He'd better do something to distinguish them from the Earthly cacophony of irreconcilable directives, all purporting to be the Will of God.
In other words, what if your principles are irrelevant to Him?
Then I'll just have to look Him in they eye and make my best case for them.
The above is an example of the silly little games that evolutionists play to "refute" opponents. This one is called putting words in people's mouth which they never said.
The correct position enunciated by the anti-evolutionists is that natural selection can only eliminate traits and that mutations are almost invariably detrimental to an organism.
As to the truth of the anti-evolutionist's statement, it is obviously true. Selection cannot be the source of genetic change. It only destroys species and individuals, it does not create anything. For creating things the evolutionists must therefore rely on mutations. While mutations do occur, no mutation has ever been observed that is little more than a small adaptation of the existing organism. It is in no way close to the transformations required to turn a bacteria into a man. While evolutionists for example, make ado about viri and bacteria being able to become immune to certain medicines, the change required for it is abysmally small. Medicines are made to be quite specific against a certain offensive agent and a slight change of shape of the offending organism will make the medicine useless. So a single point mutation can achieve this immunity to medicines and is nowhere close to the requirements of evolution to create new genes, new faculties, new organs, new traits. It is the creation of these new genes, new faculties, new organs, new traits through mutation which the anti-evolutionists say is impossible and no one has been able to give scientific evidence against it.
...must...not...comment...must...not...comment...
You are confusing evolution with atheism. They're totally different. A person can be either one or both or neither.
Difference is between falling systems and Mutations of Genome.Science has now quantitated that a genetic mutation of as little as 1 billionth (0.0000001%) of an animal's genome is relentlessly fatal.The genetic difference between human and his nearest relative, the chimpanzee, is at least 1.6% Calculated out that is a gap of at least 48 million nucleotide differences that must be bridged by random changes. And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal. Geneticist Barney Maddox, 1992 )
That would keep me from being an evo but, near as I can tell, evos are pretty much immune to logic. You need to try to frame arguments like that in language simple enough for their little minds to grasp. The way Alexander Mebane put it was to compare the situation to that of the coyote who comes to the 2000' straight drop of the Grand Canyon and decides to make it across the 20 mile gap to the other side in 3' steps. Maybe if you can get evos to watch RoadRunner cartoons long enough it will sink in...
As the very word "evolution" implies, the theory is strictly about the development, and not at all about the causation. People who say, "life evolved, but God breathed the first spark of life into the dead clay" are considered by both sides to be evolutionists.
No, but many conservative principles, and many conservative social positions are rooted in Judeo-Christian morality (in this country, anyway).
Crybabies!
I do believe this is classic ad hominem as it doesn't explain the fossil record nor explain who created the creator.
Right. Which is why liberals, as an example, see nothing wrong (or so they say publicly) with killing a perfectly formed baby 2 seconds before it leaves the birth canal.
I agree, although my interest in the Bible and its history may be for different reasons that yours. It's my understanding that many of the texts were eliminated primarily because their provenance and authenticity were somewhat suspect - e.g., there's a Gospel according to Mary Magdalene that pretty clearly falls into this category. Thomas is different, IMO - with the unearthing of the Nag Hammadi scrolls in the Dead Sea, and with Egyptian Coptic versions of it in existence from very early on, it can be pretty reliably dated to at least 120-150 AD, which puts it at the tail end of when the traditional Gospels are thought to have been recorded. That is to say, the provenance and authenticity of the Gospel of Thomas is at least as good as it is for the other Gospels that are accepted as part of the canon.
However, the Gospel of Thomas is...uncomfortable for other reasons, not least of which is its essentially gnostic (not Gnostic in the heretical sense, though) outlook, wherein it is suggested that churches and religions and such are not the way to come to know Jesus and God, but rather that God exists within everyone and everything - Heaven is not a place where you go after you die, it's a place that you find with in yourself, and a place that can be realized on earth. When you're forming a church and a religious authority, words purporting to be from Jesus suggesting that churches and religious authorities are not the way to find God can be something of a hindrance ;)
Which is a shame, if for no other reason than because some of the language in Thomas is deeply and lyrically beautiful, IMO - dropping it from the canon has removed it from the view of people, which was, of course, the point of dropping it. But still, whether you accept it as the sayings of Jesus or not, it's well worth reading...
Has he speculated on your IQ yet? He give me a 110! Boy does not know how to insult. You've got to at least go for "room temperature" or maybe "single digit."
Amazing - you're distorting my words. Gosh dang, never thought I'd see that from the C side...
That's a pretty good way of putting it. You have to step outside the traditional mode of thinking, certainly.
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