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15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense [THE FINAL DEBUNKING]
Scientific American ^ | 17 June 2002 | John Rennie

Posted on 06/17/2002 3:10:50 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

Opponents of evolution want to make a place for creationism by tearing down real science, but their arguments don't hold up

When Charles Darwin introduced the theory of evolution through natural selection 143 years ago, the scientists of the day argued over it fiercely, but the massing evidence from paleontology, genetics, zoology, molecular biology and other fields gradually established evolution's truth beyond reasonable doubt. Today that battle has been won everywhere--except in the public imagination.

Embarrassingly, in the 21st century, in the most scientifically advanced nation the world has ever known, creationists can still persuade politicians, judges and ordinary citizens that evolution is a flawed, poorly supported fantasy. They lobby for creationist ideas such as "intelligent design" to be taught as alternatives to evolution in science classrooms. As this article goes to press, the Ohio Board of Education is debating whether to mandate such a change. Some antievolutionists, such as Philip E. Johnson, a law professor at the University of California at Berkeley and author of Darwin on Trial, admit that they intend for intelligent-design theory to serve as a "wedge" for reopening science classrooms to discussions of God.

Besieged teachers and others may increasingly find themselves on the spot to defend evolution and refute creationism. The arguments that creationists use are typically specious and based on misunderstandings of (or outright lies about) evolution, but the number and diversity of the objections can put even well-informed people at a disadvantage.

To help with answering them, the following list rebuts some of the most common "scientific" arguments raised against evolution. It also directs readers to further sources for information and explains why creation science has no place in the classroom.

1. Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

2. Natural selection is based on circular reasoning: the fittest are those who survive, and those who survive are deemed fittest. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

3. Evolution is unscientific, because it is not testable or falsifiable. It makes claims about events that were not observed and can never be re-created. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

4. Increasingly, scientists doubt the truth of evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

5. The disagreements among even evolutionary biologists show how little solid science supports evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

6. If humans descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

7. Evolution cannot explain how life first appeared on earth. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

8. Mathematically, it is inconceivable that anything as complex as a protein, let alone a living cell or a human, could spring up by chance. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

9. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that systems must become more disordered over time. Living cells therefore could not have evolved from inanimate chemicals, and multicellular life could not have evolved from protozoa. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

10. Mutations are essential to evolution theory, but mutations can only eliminate traits. They cannot produce new features. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

11. Natural selection might explain microevolution, but it cannot explain the origin of new species and higher orders of life. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

12. Nobody has ever seen a new species evolve. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

13. Evolutionists cannot point to any transitional fossils--creatures that are half reptile and half bird, for instance. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

14. Living things have fantastically intricate features--at the anatomical, cellular and molecular levels--that could not function if they were any less complex or sophisticated. The only prudent conclusion is that they are the products of intelligent design, not evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

15. Recent discoveries prove that even at the microscopic level, life has a quality of complexity that could not have come about through evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

CONCLUSION
"Creation science" is a contradiction in terms. A central tenet of modern science is methodological naturalism--it seeks to explain the universe purely in terms of observed or testable natural mechanisms. Thus, physics describes the atomic nucleus with specific concepts governing matter and energy, and it tests those descriptions experimentally. Physicists introduce new particles, such as quarks, to flesh out their theories only when data show that the previous descriptions cannot adequately explain observed phenomena. The new particles do not have arbitrary properties, moreover--their definitions are tightly constrained, because the new particles must fit within the existing framework of physics.

In contrast, intelligent-design theorists invoke shadowy entities that conveniently have whatever unconstrained abilities are needed to solve the mystery at hand. Rather than expanding scientific inquiry, such answers shut it down. (How does one disprove the existence of omnipotent intelligences?)

Intelligent design offers few answers. For instance, when and how did a designing intelligence intervene in life's history? By creating the first DNA? The first cell? The first human? Was every species designed, or just a few early ones? Proponents of intelligent-design theory frequently decline to be pinned down on these points. They do not even make real attempts to reconcile their disparate ideas about intelligent design. Instead they pursue argument by exclusion--that is, they belittle evolutionary explanations as far-fetched or incomplete and then imply that only design-based alternatives remain.

Logically, this is misleading: even if one naturalistic explanation is flawed, it does not mean that all are. Moreover, it does not make one intelligent-design theory more reasonable than another. Listeners are essentially left to fill in the blanks for themselves, and some will undoubtedly do so by substituting their religious beliefs for scientific ideas.

Time and again, science has shown that methodological naturalism can push back ignorance, finding increasingly detailed and informative answers to mysteries that once seemed impenetrable: the nature of light, the causes of disease, how the brain works. Evolution is doing the same with the riddle of how the living world took shape. Creationism, by any name, adds nothing of intellectual value to the effort.

The Author(s):

John Rennie is editor in chief of Scientific American.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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To: general_re
It is? It does? Wow. So much to learn!
181 posted on 06/17/2002 8:08:49 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: Truth Addict
Your God is too small!

My God is infinitely greater (and exquisitely more subtle) than the one described in the Bible. My God created a universe perfect from the instant of creation for His inscrutable purposes, with no need for seams or thumbprints or incessant interference to keep it on the correct path. The God described in the Bible was unable to do that. Why?

182 posted on 06/17/2002 8:09:14 AM PDT by Physicist
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Comment #183 Removed by Moderator

To: whattajoke
Wow! What a Biblical Scholar you must be. Clearly you've spent countless long nights studying these passages and examining their context. I'm so glad to see someone with a rigorous intellect like yours helping us all to understand things more clearly!
184 posted on 06/17/2002 8:10:39 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: PatrickHenry
And we still have "walking catfish" moving about on land.

There, you see? The fact that we still have them proves that they couldn't be ancestral to anything. ;^)

185 posted on 06/17/2002 8:10:54 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: That Subliminal Kid
Always glad to help...
186 posted on 06/17/2002 8:11:22 AM PDT by general_re
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To: Physicist
The God described in the Bible was unable to do that.

Really? Would you elaborate? This sounds fascinating.
187 posted on 06/17/2002 8:11:23 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: general_re
Sucking up bandwidth by making pointless one line responses isn't helping anyone, but thanks anyway!
188 posted on 06/17/2002 8:12:35 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: medved
If your comments were not ment to have a sarcasm tag, I am truly amazed at the level of ignorance.
189 posted on 06/17/2002 8:12:38 AM PDT by going hot
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To: Deutsch
Prove that Moses and the prophets were wrong and I'll be your life long apostle.

If Moses's statements are documented accurately then he is making an assertion wrt a god. Your repeating his assertions still makes the god and associated properties an assertion. In abscence of evidence for an assertion, I tend to treat it as "not worth my time". If you are going to expect me to believe your proposition regarding Moses, the prophets and Revelation 20:12, then you are responsible for providing evidence. It is not my responsibility to try and disprove every silly assertion that is tossed to me.
190 posted on 06/17/2002 8:12:39 AM PDT by Dimensio
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To: Deutsch
I especially like the part about the FLOOD

All antique nations retained stories of the flood. Greeks, Romans, Chinese and others spoke of handfulls of people and animals surviving on mountaintops and high places as well as on whatever could float for eight or ten months, and I assume the story of Noah is basically factual as well.

It is a dogma of establishment science that the tale of the biblical flood is a fairytale or, at most, an aggrandized tale of some local or regional flood. That, however, does not jibe with the facts of the historical record. The flood turns out to hae been part and parcel of some larger, solar-system-wide calamity.

In particular, the seven days just prior to the flood are mentioned twice within a short space:

Gen. 7:4 "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights;...

Gen. 7:10 "And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth."

These were seven days of intense light, generated by some major cosmic event within our system. The Old Testament contains one other reference to these seven days, i.e. Isaiah 30:26:

"...Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days..."

Most interpret this as meaning cramming seven days worth of light into one day. That is wrong; the reference is to the seven days prior to the flood. The reference apparently got translated out of a language which doesn't use articles. It should read "as the light of THE seven days".

It turns out, that the bible claims that Methuselah died in the year of the flood. It may not say so directly (if it does, I don't know where), but the ages given in Genesis 5 along with the note that the flood began in the 600'th year of Noah's life (Genesis 7:11) add up that way:

Gen. 5:25 ->

"And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years and begat Lamech. And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters. And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years.

<i.e. he lived 969 - 187 = 782 years after Lamech's birth>

And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years and begat a son. And he called his name Noah...

<182 + 600 = 782 also...>

Thus we have Methusaleh dying in the year of the flood; actually seven days prior to the flood...

Louis Ginzburg's seven-volume "Legends of the Jews", the largest body of Midrashim ever translated into German and English to my knowledge, expands upon the laconic tales of the OT. Midrashim amounts to the full body of rabbinical literature, and often can flesh out the laconic stories of the OT.

From Ginzburg's Legends of the Jews, Vol V, page 175:

...however, Lekah, Gen. 7.4) BR 3.6 (in the week of mourning for Methuselah, God caused the primordial light to shine).... God did not wish Methuselah to die at the same time as the sinners...
The reference is, again, to Gen. 7.4, which reads:
"For yet seven days, and I shall cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights..."
The week of "God causing the primordial lights to shine" was the week of intense light before the flood.

What the old books are actually telling us is that there was a stellar blowout of some sort either close to or within our own system at the time of the flood. The blowout was followed by seven days of intense light and radiation, and then the flood itself. Moreover, the signs of the impending disaster were obvious enough for at least one guy, Noah, to take extraordinary precautions.

The ancient (but historical) world knew a number of seven-day light festivals, Hanukkah, the Roman Saturnalia etc. Velikovsky claimed that all were ultimately derived from the memory of the seven days prior to the flood.

If this entire deal is a made-up story, then here is a case of the storyteller (isaiah) making extra work for himself with no possible benefit, the detail of the seven days of light being supposedly known amongst the population, and never included in the OT story directly.

.

191 posted on 06/17/2002 8:13:31 AM PDT by medved
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To: jlogajan
To be athwart science is ultimately to drive the best people away from your religion. I'd be very worried about that if I were you.

I've been in many of these threads, and it seems to me that a lot of the "scientist" types are already either atheist or outright anti-Christian anyway. Why would anyone worry about driving away those who were never on our side to begin with?

And before you say, "Isn't it your 'Christian duty' to convert those heathens?" just let me remind you that it is not our duty to argue or convert anyone into our faith. We are merely tasked to present the Word of God and then pray that He works in your life. That's it.

192 posted on 06/17/2002 8:16:02 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater
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To: ThinkPlease
I understand. How frustrating it must be to have people who dare to question your pseudo-scientific orthodoxy. Now, let's do as your nick suggests, and think please. I have been following these threads on this website for over two years. I have never once seen jlogajan do anything other than troll, making pointless fact-free ad hom. attacks in order to satisfy some bizzare need he has. Psycho-masturbatory is precisely what his behavior displays. And, I think I'm a pretty honest guy about these sorts of things. Some people, like RadioAstronomer, Physicist, and one or two others whose nicks don't come to mind right now, are honestly attempting to debate the subject. You are not one, and neither is jlogajan. I could be wrong, and if so please respond with some links to thread posts to show me otherwise. I'm always willing to believe when actual empirical facts are presented.
193 posted on 06/17/2002 8:16:35 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: F16Fighter
It is only human arrogance that demands everything be "proven" scientifically in a lab or else it is invalid.

It is only human ignorance that demands everything be wrapped up in a nice little box by their god and their bible or else it is invalid.

194 posted on 06/17/2002 8:16:36 AM PDT by JediGirl
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To: Physicist
The God described in the Bible was unable to do that. Why?

Because there is more to life than math and physics. God was not unable, He was unwilling.

195 posted on 06/17/2002 8:16:47 AM PDT by Truth Addict
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Comment #196 Removed by Moderator

To: Phaedrus
Thank you for the kind words!

As to your post, I would agree with you insofar as God must have a strong and deep mathematical aspect. Where we distinctly part ways is in the inference that that is as far as it goes.

What keeps me from going farther is that that is as far as it needs to go, to be in consonance with the universe as I observe it.

197 posted on 06/17/2002 8:18:38 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Deutsch
Tell me which day you're going to stand before GOD and shake your fist at him. I want to see that!

Tell me which day you're going to stand before ALLAH and shake your fist at him. I want to see that!

Tell me which day you're going to be reincarnated as a lowly roach and then shake your fist at BUDDHA! I want to see that!

198 posted on 06/17/2002 8:19:24 AM PDT by JediGirl
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To: AmericaUnited
I just tell them what you said, smile, and go about my business...It seems to burn them up.

God said it, I believe it, That settles it!

199 posted on 06/17/2002 8:20:41 AM PDT by Wondervixen
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To: That Subliminal Kid
Sucking up bandwidth by making pointless one line responses isn't helping anyone, but thanks anyway!

Persuade f.Christian of that, and I'll be truly impressed ;)

200 posted on 06/17/2002 8:21:02 AM PDT by general_re
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