Posted on 06/06/2002 10:02:20 AM PDT by aconservaguy
The Biblical Jesus Christ never condemned homosexuality.
I know this subject is a little outside the scope of liberal Constitutional theory, but we hear it all the time. The Bible God, Christian fundamentalists say, condemns homosexuality. The religious conservative's favorite anti-gay hammer verses include such perennial stand-bys as Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and Leviticus 20:13. When read alone, these verses sound convincing and unequivocal.
However, there is another approach to the Bible that sheds a very different light on today's gay issues. Perhaps the biblical Jesus isn't as mean and nasty as some Christians seem to want him to be.
The Old Testament "anti-gay" dictates, such as in Leviticus, make up part of Mosaic Law, which was intended for the Israelites and those living with them. Mosaic Law also contains other odd dictates, such as death for rebellious teens and other (sometimes minor) offenses. Exodus chapters 21-24 and Leviticus chapters 20-22 lists many of these.
Today, however, many fundamentalist Christians, when asked why they no longer follow all of Mosaic Law, will respond "Well, Jesus fulfilled the Law!" "We are no longer under the Law!" Yet, when asked about gay issues, they generally revert to a law-like argument, proclaiming that "homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Well, which is it? Are we "under the Law" or not?
Some Christians attempt to separate "ceremonial law", done away with after the crucifixion, from "moral law," which they claim is still in effect. Others argue that some or much of the law remains in effect, but without the mandated punishments. These Christians often quote Matthew 5:17, claiming that Jesus did not "abolish" the Law, but merely "fulfilled" it.
What follows is a new and different angle, one which very seldom makes it to the airwaves or to the press.
First and foremost, Jesus did abolish the literal Mosaic Law. Ephesians 2:13-17 makes this perfectly clear. What Jesus properly fulfilled was not "the Law," but the prophecies of him, some of which were written in the Law (Luke 24:44, John 15:25). Read Matthew 5:17-18 to the very end - nothing shall disappear from the Law "until everything is accomplished" - and this will become obvious. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that Jesus "fulfilled the law" in the modern Christian fundamentalist sense that God still requires adherence to useless and baseless taboos.
However, how Jesus reportedly dealt with "law" questions is most revealing.
When the rich young man asked Jesus how he might obtain eternal life, Jesus replied, "obey the commandments" (Matt 19:17). That's a loose answer for a supposedly strict Savior, don't you think?
Apparently the man thought so, too. In verse 18, the man asked Jesus, "which ones?" In verses 18-19 (and Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20), Jesus replies with only five of the ten commandments. And, in Matthew's rendition Jesus gives a commandment that is not even one of the ten. In verse 19, Jesus lists "love your neighbor as yourself." Evidently Jesus was not overly concerned with strict literalism.
Interestingly, Jesus never did mention homosexuality. In Matthew 22:38-39, Jesus summarizes the thrust, the spirit of the law: Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.
Romans 13:9-10 reinforces this, as does James 2:8, which reads, "If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself,' you are doing right." Homosexuals are entirely capable of complying with this commandment, perhaps more capable than some of the heterosexual Christians I have known.
If you dig deep enough, you find a new, universal moral law that is good anywhere on earth: Try to help people, and do not harm anyone, including yourself. Simple, but forever valid.
What do we do with the "anti-gay" verses in the opening paragraph, then?
Leviticus 20 is gone with the rest of Mosaic Law. The objects of the Romans and Corinthians passages seem not to be homosexuals in and of themselves. The mental picture that forms when reading these passages is a vision of irresponsible, senseless, and destructive behavior, which bears no resemblance to that of responsible gays and lesbians entering into lasting commitments.
Moreover, Paul's letters had specific intended recipients. Paul sounds prohibitive in dealing with the Corinthians because they were the early church group with the most troubles. But when Paul wrote the Galatians, who were especially uptight about matters of "law," Paul sounds like a civil libertarian. Some of the most beautiful Scriptures are found in Galatians.
An argument can thus be made that likens God to a physician treating different patients with various illnesses. God, through Paul, wrote one type of prescription to treat the wayward Corinthians, a different prescription to treat the uptight Galatians, etc. Each of God's prescriptions would be "true" for its intended patient.
Therefore, when Jesus died on the cross for all mankind, do you really think that God wanted to "change the rules" for distant cultures such as the Aborigines and Lakota to fit what Paul wrote to Romans? Or did Jesus merely summarize the essence of all moral customs, no matter how these may manifest themselves at any given place or time?
Something to think about.
Here are some more quaint Scriptures to ponder:
James 2:25 - "In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?" Hmmm
3 John 1:11 - "Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God." Interesting.
Romans 14:5 - "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Whatever happened to the Ten Commandments and keeping the Sabbath day holy??
Extra credit points go to anyone who takes the time to peruse Colossians 2:20-23.
From 1988 to 1996, reported hate crimes against gays and lesbians have increased 260 percent, a rise which closely coincides with today's rapidly escalated religious hatred toward gays by the extreme right wing's thousands of mass media outlets.
This begs the question: What do you think "pleases God" more? How kindly and charitably we as humans treat one another? Or how hatefully we abuse people such as gays and lesbians who fail to adhere to baseless religious taboos and "moral laws" that no longer serve any useful, practical purpose toward creating a civil society?
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." (Romans 12:18).
If Jesus did not subscribe to those aspects of Torah which sanctify life, and the life perpetuating union of marriage between a man and a woman, then there would seem no further point to his ministry...at all!
Note specifically too, that Jesus' attendance at the Marriage at Cana, was not for two men.
Well, which is it? Are we "under the Law" or not?
1 cor 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
The phrase 'abusers of themselves with mankind' in verse 9 is from the Greek word arsenokoites (from the roots for man and bed) which can only be translated homosexual and still make sense in this context and to the culture at the time.
So The Word of God itself tells us that those who practice homosexual behavior will not go to heaven. But it tells us in vs 11 that 'homosexuality' is not a permanent condition and that people can be cured of it.
Jesus never spoke against quite a few things that were wrong. He never once condemned speeding yet speeding is sinful.
3 John 1:11 - "Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God." Interesting.
I like this one. He tries to make this a pro-homosexual behavior scripture. But the scriptures clearly state that homosexual behavior is abomination so one who does homosexual behavior is in no way doing good so that person can't be of God.
The objects of the Romans and Corinthians passages seem not to be homosexuals in and of themselves. The mental picture that forms when reading these passages is a vision of irresponsible, senseless, and destructive behavior, which bears no resemblance to that of responsible gays and lesbians entering into lasting commitments.
Since no homosexual behavior is responsible and since all homosexual behavior is destructive, and since the WORD of GOD does not accept any male-male union the passages from Romans and Corinthians apply to all. Also his reading of these passages seems to have been throughly twisted in order to avoid having to take responsibility for his behavior
It amazes me how the SADs claim to not believe in God but spend huge amounts of time trying to prove that God approves of what they are doing. Perhaps they have a guilty conscience since they know they are sinning? The author needs to stop trying to use the bible to justify his sin and just repent of it and be healed from his perversion.
God Save America (Please)
That would depend on how you define "mean and nasty." If you define someone laying down a standard of moral absolutes as being mean and nasty (because they are interfering with you having a good time), then Jesus probably was mean and nasty by your definition.
The thing about the Bible is that people have interpreted it to justify all manner of atrocities throughout History. Even if this argument were true, and the Biblical Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality- he didn't condone it either! For that reason your argument doesn't hold water.
Mt. 19:4 - 5 "He answered, 'Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?' "It is in this inclusive context that Jesus continues by saying, Mt. 19:6 "What therefore God has joined together. Let not man put asunder.
Well said. This is just another example of liberals trying to twist the Bible to condone their sins
You must have read a different KJV Bible than I did. I don't remember Christ condeming or "not tolerating" the harlot. I remember the townspeople and disciples being mad because they did not understand why he spoke to her.
What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?
We realize that with the growing popularity and glamorization of homosexuality, that this subject can be a very difficult one to address. Furthermore, as hate crimes specifically committed against homosexuals occur, many feel that this issue shouldn't be addressed at all for fear of only adding to the hostile environment that many homosexuals face. Despite the cultural climate in which we live, this issue must be addressed according to the Word of God. God's laws are always for our good, although man may see them as restricting. In the end, only obedience to the Word of God can bring true freedom. We address this issue out of God's love for the homosexual to bless and help him.
Much of our society has embraced many perverted sexual practices that are considered in the Bible as abominations to God. Homosexuality is among the list of deviate or abnormal sexual practices however, there are many other practices that can be included as well. Pornography, pedophilia, prostitution, bestiality, oral sex, phone sex and computer virtual reality sex, just to name a few of them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
Although the Bible doesn't detail each and every one of these sinful acts, it does clearly speak out about many of them. Any deviation from God's original plan for sex between a married man and woman is still a sin in God's eyes. The main reason we call these things perverted is because they are unnatural and scripture clearly tells us those who do such things are committing abominations. Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."
Homosexuality is also referred to as the sin of sodomy. This reference comes from an account in the Bible of two exceedingly wicked cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, which the Lord destroyed. Sodom was known for its rampant homosexuality and unrestrained sexual lust, as well as other sins such as arrogance, haughtiness, and disregard for the poor. When the Lord sent angels to warn Lot who lived in the city that it was about to be destroyed, the men of the city actually wanted to rape the angels! Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."
In the Old Testament the penalty for this sin was severe. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Today the penalty of death comes in the form of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. It also brings death to the soul and spirit of man because the life of God is pushed out by indulging in something that is an abomination to God. God wants to deliver all who are trapped in this unholy practice and He will if anyone calls out to Him with a sincere heart.
Romans 1:24-32:
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
These scriptures clearly state that these vile affections of men lusting for other men (gay men) or women lusting for other women (lesbians) are not the natural affections God created men and women to have for one another. Let me say here that God loves all homosexuals! However, He hates the deeds of homosexuality because they are sinful. God did not create any human being as a homosexual. They are not born that way, just as murderers are not born that way. However, these spirits can be transmitted to children, especially if someone who had this demonic spirit seduced or raped a child--or even if they were close to gay people. These demons can also be imparted to others through unholy sexual acts.
People become homosexuals because they yield to abnormal acts or lust. It is through some source that they have received a demonic spirit that drives them to their lust. Viewing evil videos or pornographic books is a way of opening the door for Satan to give one an evil, perverse spirit. Though people are not born as homosexuals, the Bible does say all human beings are born with a sin nature. If we yield to the evils of our flesh it will lead to our destruction not only in this life, but in the life to come. However, through faith in Jesus Christ and His death on the cross we can break the hold that sin has upon us. We do not have to yield to the old fleshy nature but we can now overcome evil temptations and live our lives controlled by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Sex is God's idea and its purpose is not only for procreation, but also for recreation and the development of a deep relationship between man and woman. Nothing is wrong or dirty about sex when it is engaged in the bonds of marriage as the Lord commanded in the Bible. However, when perversions are committed inside the marriage relationship, this can be sinful also. God made man and woman and brought them together "face to face." Oral sex is of homosexual origin that replaces the normal "face to face" relationship God intended in a marriage. The Bible describes the sex act in Song of Solomon Chapter 4. In this chapter it speaks of this "face to face" relationship by describing looking into his lover's eyes and kissing his lover's lips and fondling his lover's breasts. Oral sex is not normal or natural as it is an unclean act.
No one has to live in bondage with an abnormal life of homosexuality nor any other abnormal behavior. No one has to be controlled by pornography. No one has to have evil thoughts plague their minds. There is a way out through what Jesus has done for us. He loves sinners and wants to free us from any evil practices. He will empower those who cry out for deliverance to get free and stay free. Here are the steps you must take to get free:
(1.) Make a total commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. Be willing to turn your life completely over to the will of God and yield to His plan for your life. This means you must be willing to do anything, go anywhere and give up any thing as He leads. Remember, God will never lead you to do anything that is not in agreement with the Bible. You can trust God. He created you and has a better plan for your life.
(2.) Your must pray and read your Bible daily. You must study and apply the Word of God to overcome Satan's attacks. The way that you resist the attacks of the devil is by quoting the Word of God to him. When the devil came to tempt Jesus, He simply quoted the Word to him. Good praise tapes will also be of a great help when you are tempted. Put one on and start singing along with it.
(3.) You must pray for and seek out a strong Bible believing group of Holy Spirit filled people. You will need their help and fellowship. As you humble yourself and seek help, the Lord will deliver you. Ask God to lead you to someone that can pray the prayer of deliverance for you, as you probably will need to be set free from a demon. You should also seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit as you will need His power to get free and to remain free.
(4.) You must cut off all sources and relationships that would lead you back into sin. The Bible tells us to flee fornication (sexual sins). You must get out of any corrupt entanglements, or areas that you know will be a temptation to you. If you have been hooked on internet pornography subscribe to an Internet Service Provider that will filter out the pornography for you. Destroy all evil books and videos.
(5.) Should you slip or fall back occasionally, repent and get right back up and go on with God. Do not allow the devil to condemn you once you have repented. Put your sin under the blood of Jesus. He will strengthen you and you will win this battle because of the Lord's promise to you. Remember, He loves you and is there to help you. Run to Him when you get in trouble, never run from Him. He will not ever give up on you! We too, will be standing with you for your total healing and deliverance. Philippians 1:6: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ."
(6.) You must forgive everyone that has ever hurt you. You can only do this through the power of God. You must by a simple act of your will voice the forgiveness and then the Lord will give you the feeling of forgiveness. This may be a while in coming but just keep forgiving when you think of any wrong that has been done to you. The Lord will give you His love for those people who have wronged you.
Prayer for Deliverance
Finally we want to pray for you right now if you need it:
Dear Heavenly Father,
We come to you in the mighty name of Jesus and we ask that you touch this one right now, first of all with your love and forgiveness. Lord, wash their sins away. Wash away all the uncleanness and guilt. Lord we ask you to free them right now from the powers of darkness.
Now, we speak to Satan and his demons and we command them to leave in the name of Jesus! Satan, this one is no longer under your power. The blood of Jesus has set them free! We resist you and you must flee! This one belongs to God and you have no more authority over them! Be gone!
Dear Lord, thank you that you have set this one free and we are believing that you will lead them to the right people that will help them to walk out this deliverance. We break every chain of iniquity over their life and cancel every evil word that has been spoken against them. We declare they will walk in your victory and that you will enable them to do it. Lord, fill them with your Holy Sprit and guide them in the ways of God! We speak blessing and success to them. Most of all, we pray that they will feel your love for them right now. We ask this all in the precious name of Jesus. Amen.
We are still under the Law, but because of Christ, we are not 'condemned' by it.
Behaviors outside of the law are still to be condemned. It is difficult for those in the behaviors to understand, without Christ, that the condemnation is not a personal one. If one truly loves Christ, they will try to obey and fail. Those given over to 'sin' will no longer try to obey. They will cause others to stumble, and, without repentence, will condemn themselves. That they blame the Christian for loving them in a way they don't want to be loved, is only because of 'blindness' to the truth.
Of course, having 'faith' that there is no God, and no eternity, and no hell, causes none fear anything but earthly power, which can be sought by any means.
Not even Arthur Andersen. {;~)
You said it very succinctly.
To us, if someone is searching the Bible THIS desperately, TRYING TO JUSTIFY SIN, they KNOW in their hearts what they are doing is wrong.
We've watched this for a few years.
The confusion is in trying to say that because Jesus was BORN, that all sins can be done without judgement now. How did they ever get this out of Jesus atoning for our sins?
All I can say to the author of this article is...Wrongo bucko!!!!
We KNOW that the things Jesus DID, atoned for them. In otherwords,.. if Jesus actually addressed the forbidden thing, and said that His Father/God will now accept that type of thing, then and only then, was that behaviour allowed.
I don't recall anywhere in the Bible reading that Jesus was a homosexual. Nor a Pedophille. Nor a murderer, or rapist or a thief. Get my drift??
How sad that some in the gay community want the Lord in their life.. but just aren't willing to accept the written word.
I do not judge their behavior in that I won't tell a certain gay person.. "YOU'RE GONNA BURN" ... but I will condemn the sin. It IS a sin for man to lay with man, or woman to lay with woman. It IS a sin to abort an unborn child, murder them.
If you feel something in your gut, a feeling what your doing is wrong.. that is a message from God that it IS wrong.
To me, those people who are gay who try to justify their behavior in the Bible, are actually trying to find an answer to that gnawing gut feeling that is trying to warn them they are sinning.
That gnawing gut feeling is called "spiritual discernment". I wish they would all follow it. Trust that "gut feeling". The "spiritual discernment".
God loves them and when they change their lives, and ask for forgiveness, they will be forgiven instantly!! As long as their hearts are sincere.
But they must never ever go back to the previous lifestyle.
You cannot knowingly sin, (thinking you can just ask for forgiveness at a later date).. then keep asking for forgiveness after your done sinning. You have to change forever.
As to Colossians 2:20-23.
20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21) (touch not; taste not; handle not; 22)Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23)Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
This passage in no way speaks of the Will of God, or His son Jesus, but rather that only if you are DEAD in Christ, if you don't know Him, that you will then persue things of the flesh. God gave us FREE WILL (the above passage talks of "will worship") and how all those things are neglectful to the HONOUR of satisfying the flesh spiritually, morally.
I'm amazed at how evil influences cause one to read the Bible differently than Godly WILL. Spiritual Discernment.
What a sad statement. I will continue to pray for these children of God. That those who continue to try to find justification for their actions, will instead find the true spirit of the Lord. That they will seek forgiveness,..and will change their lives.
Physical pleasure in sin for this limited time on earth.. is a wrong direction. This life is but the blink of an eye compared to eternity!!!
I love all sinners, and pray for them to search for the real truth and for forgiveness and the peace it can offer them for eternal happiness.
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