[1 spark]

I came across this while searching for other information. Even though it's 4 month old news, it's brand new to me. Sorry if it's been posted before. It didn't show up when i did a FR search.

[1 spark]

I tried to post this under RELIGION, but it didn't work.

[1 spark]

Thought you might be interested in this.(Am i supposed to say "ping" instead?)

And, how do i post in RELIGION instead of General Interest? The format wouldn't behave.

[freedom9]

"will have the same traits of that Jesus "

maybe . . .

But not the same temperment

[Salvation]

Catholic Bump for continued healing for all men.

St. Luke tells us in his Gospel and in the Acts of the Apostles all the references from the Old Testament that came true through the life and death of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

Re-read these two books and check out the fulfillments of these Old Testament prophecies!

[Catholicguy]

I have HAD IT with "apologies." Has ANY RABBI, in the HISTORY of the WORLD APOLOGISED for the role of some Jews in DEICIDE?

Has ANY RABBI, in the HISTORY of the WORLD APOLOGISED for the HATE LITERATURE ABOUT OUR SAVIOUR AND HIS MOTHER THAT CONSTITUTED PARTS OF THE TALMUD?

I still don't know how it is possible to "apologise" for the errors commited by those LONG DEAD. I am too dull to grasp how that is done.

Well, at least the Jews, apparently , are pleased, and, after all, isn't that what is important - that they "approve" of Catholic Theological Texts?

[Catholicguy]

Asked whether that could be taken to mean that the Messiah may or may not have come, Dr. Navarro- Valls said no. "It means it would be wrong for a Catholic to wait for the Messiah, but not for a Jew," he said.

I am going to have to consume MASSIVE AMOUNTS of wine, marijuana and cocaine before THAT statement even begins to make sense.

What has happened to the mandate to TEACH ALL NATIONS? Hello, Rome..is there anybody still there?

[Catholicguy]

Prof. Michael R. Marrus, dean of graduate studies at the University of Toronto, who specializes in the history of the Holocaust, was also complimentary. Professor Marrus was among the Jewish members of a panel studying the Vatican's role in the Holocaust, but the group was disbanded after disputes between Catholic and Jewish scholars. "This is important," he said, "and all the more so because it comes from Cardinal Ratzinger, who is not considered the most liberal spokesman for the church. It represents real and remarkable progress on the Catholic-Jewish front," even as the dispute over the Catholic Church's wartime history seems to be hardening, he added.

These same guys CONTINUE to petition the Vatican for permission to go on a witch hunt in Catholic Archives. They are intent on proving evil. I'd tell them to go to hell...

Look, when are we going to grow-up and tell our enemies to take a hike? We wish no man evil but at the same time we HAVE to Defend the Deposit of Faith and that means telling EVERYONE THAT JESUS IS THE MESSIAH. JEWS ESPECIALLY. THE TRUTH IS NOT SERVED BY ANFRACTUOUS SOPHISTRIES THAT TRY TO PLEASE BOTH PARTIES.

O.K. I am done ranting. I'm gonna go get drunk.....

[Woodkirk]

Well -- that does it -- Rome has spoken -- the matter is settled -- the Jews can now wait for their Messiah. Don't worry about reading the Scriptures -- the word of Rome is enough, particularly when it issues forth from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition, and from Ratzinger, the bishop of Munich during the Third Reich.

Remember, now, you are permitted to "wait" for the Messiah -- you weren't given permission to "receive" him. Rome is so masterful with its choice of words -----

[Starwind]

It would seem not only have Jewish scholars overlooked their own prophets, but now the Vatican as well…

Zechariah 12:10,11 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.

[Frumanchu]

Ya know...it just struck me sitting here how funny the thread's title is. If the Jews refuse to believe that Jesus was the Messiah, then OF COURSE they're still waiting! And of course the Messiah is validated by the Old Testament or we wouldn't believe in one and they wouldn't be looking for one!!

Way to go, Vatican!:D

[Fithal the Wise]

I cannot conceive that it took a 210 page document to clearly distinguish the characteristics of first and second messianic comings in the old testament, and cannot imagine that this has not been classic christian teaching for 2000 years.

Consider just the messianic prophesies of Isaiah 61:1-2a which Jesus describes as fullfilled in Luke 4. The balance of the prophesies in Isaiah 61 are yet to be flfilled.

ISAIAH 61

1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me,

Because the LORD has anointed Me

To preach good tidings to the poor;

He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,

To proclaim liberty to the captives,

And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;

2To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, (END OF QUOTE IN LUKE 4)

And the day of vengeance of our God;

To comfort all who mourn,

3To console those who mourn in Zion,

To give them beauty for ashes,

The oil of joy for mourning,

The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;

That they may be called trees of righteousness,

The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified."

4And they shall rebuild the old ruins,

They shall raise up the former desolations,

And they shall repair the ruined cities,

The desolations of many generations.

5Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,

And the sons of the foreigner

Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

6But you shall be named the priests of the LORD,

They shall call you the servants of our God.

You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,

And in their glory you shall boast.

7Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,

And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.

Therefore in their land they shall possess double;

Everlasting joy shall be theirs.

8"For I, the LORD, love justice;

I hate robbery for burnt offering;

I will direct their work in truth,

And will make with them an everlasting covenant.

9Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles,

And their offspring among the people.

All who see them shall acknowledge them,

That they are the posterity whom the LORD has blessed."

10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD,

My soul shall be joyful in my God;

For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,

He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,

As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,

And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

11For as the earth brings forth its bud,

As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth,

So the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

LUKE 4

16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

18"The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,

Because He has anointed Me

To preach the gospel to the poor;

He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted

To proclaim liberty to the captives

And recovery of sight to the blind,

To set at liberty those who are oppressed;

19To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.

20<Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."

[Terriergal]

I've always thought this. How come it takes a Vatican theologian to figure that out?

[Matt Young]

God the Grandson?

If Jesus comes again, and he was a God the first time, does this not make four incarnations, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and now Grandson?.

By the way, how exactly do we know that Jesus was a God? Don't the human interpreters have to be divine themselves to divine that Jesus was divine? The problem is doubly difficult since the Gospels were written well after the death of Jesus, in the case of the older Gospels, almost 100 years after the death.

The Muslims have the same problem, the Korun was written some 200 years after the death of Mohhaned. Well, whatever, one has to be polytheist to be a Christian. Unfortunately, the Jews and Muslims have a monopoly on monotheism.

Let me propose another monotheism, Mother Nature. This theory says that all of nature is the God, and the laws of Mother Nature are to be discovered by man.

[Starwind]

A number of Jewish scholars and leaders said they were pleased but stunned and would have to take some time to digest fully the complicated, 210-page study, published in French and Italian.

The oddest thing about the document from the Jewish perspective is that it was so quietly released. It has been in bookstores here since November, but as a small book titled "The Jewish People and the Holy Scriptures in the Christian Bible," it drew no notice until the Italian news agency ANSA printed a small report on it Wednesday.

Help, please?

I have been searching for this book "The Jewish People and the Holy Scriptures in the Christian Bible," but can not find it. I find many news reports about but can't find it available for sale, nor online.

Could someone knowledgeable in obtaining Vatican publications point me to where it's available in English, ideally online, else as hardcopy for purchase?

I'm somewhat guessing at your interest and background, and I apologize for my presumptions. Perhaps you could ping someone else on my behalf?