The True Eucharist

Sapphires | Jonathan Cahn

[WhatNot]

Many churches focus on the "eucharist," which for them means the bread of the Lord's Supper. Other believer's don't think the concept of the eucharist is Biblical. But the concept of "eucharist" is Biblical. The word "eucharist" comes from the Greek "eu" meaning "good" and "charis" meaning "grace" or "blessing." The eucharist at the Last Supper was not the bread itself, but the blessing Messiah said over the bread. The blessing is one said in Jewish homes to this day: "Baruch Atah Adonai Elohaynu Melech Ha Olam, Ha Motzee Lechem Min Ha Aretz" - "Blessed are You O Lord Our God, King of the Universe, Who brings forth bread from the earth." This is the true eucharist.

The true eucharist is never eaten, it is given. It is a blessing of thanks to God. It's not the bread, it is the blessing over the bread. And this distinction can change your life. Life doesn't consist of the things you have, but the blessings you say over them. You only truly have what you bless and give thanks for. Give the blessing of thanks over your, bread - your parents, your family, your friends, your situation - over everything, good and bad. And your life itself will be truly blessed, for such is the true eucharist.

Luke 22:14-20

TODAY'S MISSION

Prepare a private communion service today, with you and Messiah. Lift up to Him those things that need to receive His blessing - your loved ones, your job, your ministry.

[zshhh]

you just gotta see #220

[katnip]

I suspect he's rather busy for FR at this time.

Probably snipping tails from kittens and poking eyes out of small lizards.

[patent]

Thanks. I am still waiting for the opportunity to debate any meaningful point on transubstantiation. I'll discuss the content of the article or the contents of my replies. This is one of my favorite topics besides heresy. =)

I would like to do that..but the other RC's will never let that happen JM..exactly what happened today would happen again..divert and if all else fails hit abuse

Mom, you are really pulling out all the stops here to defend this. Look at what you are doing, I really fear for you. This association with guys like this is putting your soul in danger. Consider what you have said on this thread, and what you have defended.

First, you said that “One more thing Brian has publically stated he likes to bait people to get them banned.” You know that isn’t what you said, you inferred his intent into things. You judged him, and judged him quite harshly. Yet you then turn around, and despite having the_doc’s words right in front of you, state “So it is not mine to judge the intenet of his [the_doc’s] heart.” You mangle Brian’s words to judge him, but can’t judge the doc.

Second, you stated that “Yes I think Brian baits people, and yes I think you have an abuse button ring that is ready on command to strike.” You accused me of having an abuse ring ready to strike, and then went on to claim “the major players have not denied it have they?” This despite knowing that I have always made clear I don’t do that. It was discussed that time OP was given the time out, and you were bumped to that, and to his response to my post. Not to mention which you and I have discussed it at other times as well.

Now, here you are claiming that its Catholics who are refusing to discuss the content of this article. That is blatantly inaccurate. I am shocked you would go to this length to defend the doc. Review the history on this thread, by poster, posting substance, and you will see that everyone – including you and including that Catholic guy, Dr. Kopp - was discussing substance until the_doc’s freepermail attack. Even then it was the_doc who ran from this thread and refused to defend his words. Start from the top:

1 posted on 4/26/02 11:01 AM Central by WhatNot

12 posted on 4/26/02 11:28 PM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
13 posted on 4/27/02 3:43 PM Central by the_doc

To: Dr. Brian Kopp;the_doc
14 posted on 4/27/02 5:13 PM Central by RnMomof7

To: the_doc
17 posted on 4/27/02 11:45 PM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
18 posted on 4/28/02 9:09 AM Central by the_doc

To: the_doc
19 posted on 4/28/02 10:11 AM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
20 posted on 4/28/02 10:48 AM Central by the_doc

To: Gophack;the_doc
21 posted on 4/28/02 12:28 PM Central by RnMomof7

To: the_doc
22 posted on 4/28/02 2:08 PM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp

To: the_doc
23 posted on 4/28/02 2:17 PM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp

To: the_doc
24 posted on 4/28/02 2:27 PM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
25 posted on 4/28/02 2:28 PM Central by the_doc

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
26 posted on 4/28/02 2:49 PM Central by the_doc

To: the_doc
27 posted on 4/28/02 3:20 PM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp

To: Dr. Brian Kopp
28 posted on 4/28/02 3:35 PM Central by the_doc

To: the_doc
29 posted on 4/28/02 3:47 PM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp

It was not the Catholic who ran from this discussion, and as Catholics have noted since, they are still here and still ready to discuss things. Your claim that they aren’t is bizarre and false.

And I won’t even add zshhh’s comments until you have a chance to respond.

Why are you going to such lengths to defend this freeper mail? The_doc’s comments were nasty and un-Christian. Put yourself in the recipient’s shoes for a second. Imagine if your husband came home or an acquaintance came over and called you an idiot. When he saw you discussing religion on FR he then calls you a ”stubbornly superstitious religious dork.” He then continues, repeatedly calling you a liar for merely explaining what you believe and why you enjoy FR.

Imagine if another nurse called you a disgrace to the profession, or called a third nurse you worked with a disgrace to the profession, all because she was a Catholic or a Calvinist. Would you defend that?

Your association with these people is causing you to try anything to defend the indefensible. Please, take a step back and think about what you are doing here. I fear for your soul. It doesn’t have to be this way around here. Were a Catholic to say this I would condemn him for it, as would most other Catholics. But you all are making this the public face of Calvinism on FR. Only a single Calvinist has criticized the_doc’s post, and it took one day and countless bumps to Calvinists to find him. Actually I don’t recall running into him before. For the rest of you, this is now what you people are, and it will be pointed to again and again. You support this, you are now responsible for it.

It is your call. I don’t want to see you go down this path. I truly hope you will step back and take a look at what you are doing here, but if you won’t it calls into question everything you ever say on this forum, and no apology 2 months from now can change that.

It is your call.

God bless,

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

Again, yes, those words are blunt and to the point and 'not very nice' -intentionally so! Sometimes that is necessary.

Jean,

You keep turning to “then again, if the_doc is correct...” type arguments. We clearly disagree on this, IMHO even if he was correct in the theology, that can never excuse the nasty attacks he made. Were a Catholic to do this we would condemn him for doing so. That is the difference between us I guess, and we will have to leave it at that. But your truth defense seems interesting in one aspect.

Can you identify any word, phrase or sentence in either of those freepermails that you consider wrong and condemn? The alternative is that you stand behind the entire thing as the truth, as you call it, and as carefully chosen words. Your choice.

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

Thank you. God bless,

patent

[xzins]

Irish, I wish it were only that. I've been on the receiving end of the_doc's letters. I've seen this example and I've seen others.

doc is a serial abuser. In my opinion he is unbalanced. There is more going on in the letter posted on this page than just rudeness or even "pointed debate." There's something broken in a personal way in the words he's chosen to send to an unknown person.

You sense it, too. Thus, your comments and apology for calvinists. Most of doc's friends from the calvinist threads are playing the role of "enablers" for his abuse. That blinds them to the "strangeness" of his remarks.

I'm certain he is unbalanced, disordered in some DSM IV kind of way. I wish they would step back for just a moment, so they could see that this is one that needs help.

[ShadowAce]

Correct, or incorrect, his intentions are the best although...

The road to hell is paved.....

[RnMomof7]

hypocrite....

[RnMomof7]

But you are noble...

[WhatNot]

Thanks for your input, although I have to humbly disagree. Whenever you take Bible verses out of context, you misunderstand the verses true meaning, for instance;

Deuteronomy 4:24
For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, .
Wow, God must be a blast furnance, perhaps we could use God to lower our heating bills?

John 10:9
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
Oh my! is this saying that Jesus is made of wood, does He have hinges? Maybe He needs us to oil Him every once in a while so He won't squeak when we enter through to be saved!

See what I mean? Never read a Bible verse out of context, always read the verses above it and below it to get the true meaning of what is really being said. Because if you don't read the verses in context and interpret the scriptures with other scriptures, you will come up with some very off-the-wall interpretations

[xzins]

hypocrite?

Ya know, Rnnie, you could have a sick man on your hands, and you don't care to step back and think about it. Since you're a real live nurse that actually makes you the one pretends that reality is something other than what it is....hypo (under) crite (judging)... In other words a "hypocrite" is one who allows important things to pass underneath their judgement mechanism. Beneath the radar screen.

You are not being serious enough about reading that post the doc sent to a completely unknown person. He's broke.

[RnMomof7]

I was asked by Brian not to discuss the Eucharist with him ( yes I do have that mail) I have honored the request..I commented to some extent at the beginning of the thread hoping for a little dialog on the cultural meaning of the words used by Jesus..note no RC chose to talk about that..Brian did his usual Paste and copy spam when he had no answer..a rather obvious attempt to cut off discussion..

No serious personal discussion and personal interaction please..I would rather not have to consider this spam was pasted all over the place..

No you guys do not want to consider the possibility that your belief is built on a foundation of sand..as one told me ..If I found out that Eucharist was not true I would become an atheists (yes I have the mail on that too) ...I find that pathetic and spiritually immature..but every man to his own god

To those that are on this thread soley to do a little back biting and get a little bit of vengence I say to you

The result...Act 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.

If this tread was about the Pastor xzins...or about Proud2Brc..the abuse button would have been pushed as the thread exist soley for the puropose of gossip and slander..which is against the FR rules..but the rules only count when it is about you right X..hypocrites all

[Gophack]

I just read a post on the Holy Eucharist by Dr. Scott Hahn and I think that it's pretty powerful. Here is a small portion:

So did Jesus say to them, "I didn't mean it, guys. I was just kind of, you know, using hyperbole or metaphor." No. He actually intensifies the scandal. He actually raises the obstacle even higher. "He said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood,' which Leviticus condemns, the drinking of blood, 'unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is food indeed and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him.'"

He said that four times in four different ways.

In verse 60, "Many of His disciples when they heard it said, 'This is a hard saying. Who can listen to it?'" That is an understatement. "Jesus, however, knowing in Himself that His disciples murmured at it" (the disciples, the followers, the spiritual proteges, not just the crowd now, the disciples themselves are taking offense at this and murmuring and grumbling), "said to them, 'Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the son of man ascending to where He was before? It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.'"

What words? That you've got to eat my flesh and drink my blood, those words.

If you would be interested in reading his entire, biblically based argument, you can check out the thread at: The Institution of the Eucharist in Scripture

God bless. We are all believers in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. I appreciate the respectful and prayerful debate.

[RnMomof7]

You are the sick one..spiritually sick..you sell your inheritance for a bowl of stew..do not look now pastor your Jesuit bowl is empty

[RnMomof7]

Appreciated but they shouldn't! ;) We have some of those people doing it during Mass now and us traditionalists are trying to put a stop to it.

I think it started in the Cursillo movement here in this country and has spread..do people think it is more spiritual??

[Gophack]

I got into this thread a day late, but I can tell you for one I have ONLY ONCE turned in abuse, and it wasn't on a Catholic thread. It was a pro-life thread I had posted on an issue I feel strongly about where someone else had posted pictures of aborted babies. While there is a place to show the horrors of abortion, it wasn't on the thread I had posted and I asked that the pictures be removed primarily because I wanted people to read the article.

I have been accused of pushing the abuse button and I point out each time I'm accused that I didn't. I haven't always been believed, but I would admit it if I did.

I agree that the most important thing in debating is curtesy and respect. We are all children of God, and being mean-spirited is uncalled for. At the same time, I oppose censorship. Let the people see who us acting proper and make their own conclusions. I have even been critical of my fellow Catholics if I felt they were being too negative.

God bless.

[RnMomof7]

Could I ask why you never responded to my post to you..you prefer to have a tape of a Catholic Convert rather than have to read and think for yourself? Why not tell Wrigley and me what YOU think?

[tiki]

I too have only pushed the the abuse button once and it wasn't a comment but the post itself which was x-rated and gross. I did so before there was even one comment. I think the person has re-posted it again and each time someone has immediately pushed the abuse button so I don't feel I did anything out of line.

[Gophack]

Feeling the need to make a 'sign of the cross' to make your prayers 'super special' or the mindless repetative babbling of the Rosary are both stubborn and supersticious.

The reason why Catholics make the sign of the cross is to show respect and reverence to God (In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

The Rosary isn't mindless repetition; the Rosary is a series of simple prayers every Catholic knows. While we pray, we contemplate one of the fifteen mysteries. For example, one mystery would be the the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and become closer to God in understanding His Glory and Love for us through the Resurrection. We think about salvation and eternal life. As all Christians agree, the life of Jesus is worthy of hours, days, years or contemplation and worship; Catholics use the Rosary as a prayerful time to think about our Lord and Savior.

God bless.

[RnMomof7]

The Rosary isn't mindless repetition; the Rosary is a series of simple prayers every Catholic knows. While we pray, we contemplate one of the fifteen mysteries. For example, one mystery would be the the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and become closer to God in understanding His Glory and Love for us through the Resurrection. We think about salvation and eternal life. As all Christians agree, the life of Jesus is worthy of hours, days, years or contemplation and worship; Catholics use the Rosary as a prayerful time to think about our Lord and Savior.

Mary is dead. She is not God..she is not omnipresent..so she can not hear all those prayers...she is in heaven doing exactly what she was created to do..she is kneeling at the feet of God and saying Holy Holy Holy..

Go did you raed my post on Eucharist? Any thought?