Posted on 04/26/2002 9:01:52 AM PDT by WhatNot
Many churches focus on the "eucharist," which for them means the bread of the Lord's Supper. Other believer's don't think the concept of the eucharist is Biblical. But the concept of "eucharist" is Biblical. The word "eucharist" comes from the Greek "eu" meaning "good" and "charis" meaning "grace" or "blessing." The eucharist at the Last Supper was not the bread itself, but the blessing Messiah said over the bread. The blessing is one said in Jewish homes to this day: "Baruch Atah Adonai Elohaynu Melech Ha Olam, Ha Motzee Lechem Min Ha Aretz" - "Blessed are You O Lord Our God, King of the Universe, Who brings forth bread from the earth." This is the true eucharist.
The true eucharist is never eaten, it is given. It is a blessing of thanks to God. It's not the bread, it is the blessing over the bread. And this distinction can change your life. Life doesn't consist of the things you have, but the blessings you say over them. You only truly have what you bless and give thanks for. Give the blessing of thanks over your, bread - your parents, your family, your friends, your situation - over everything, good and bad. And your life itself will be truly blessed, for such is the true eucharist.
Luke 22:14-20
TODAY'S MISSION
Prepare a private communion service today, with you and Messiah. Lift up to Him those things that need to receive His blessing - your loved ones, your job, your ministry.
Monsieur Chauvin, I seem to recall that it is very many Protestants who "feel the need" to hold hands during the Our Father. I wonder why you think this makes your recitation of that prayer 'super special'? That you hold such an irrational detestation for a physical form of devotion is rather curious. Is it superstition for our hands to worship along with our mouths? Are my hands pagan, and my lips Christian, that one should praise God and the other should not?
And as far as so-called "mindless" repetition, clearly you are wholly unfamiliar with the meditations that necessarily accompany the Rosary. The vocal prayers are but the surface level of that devotion. While we say the prayers, we are continually meditating on the mysteries of the life of Christ--the crucifixion, the scourging at the pillar, the nativity, the resurrection, etc. Far from being "mindless", it engages the lips, the mouth and the brain all to their fullest extent.
As to the above quote -I'd assume that is Dr. to Dr. -you'd have to have doc clarify that one. I'm not a Dr.
As to blunt language
I work closely with troubled youth -the kind that will probably spend their adult years in 'the system'.
Quite fequently, these kids need to be 'hit up side the head'. I need to utilize blunt language to get them to understand the path that they are taking in life. It's not 'nice' the things which I say -but done privately (such that they are not publically disrespected by their peers) it does work from time to time.
Again, you are confusing 'bluntness' with insult. That is not necessarily the case.
Jean
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Perhaps you're thinking about liberals singing kumbaya. This custom has escaped my notice despite having been a Protstant for a few decades.
Replies of course welcome.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with nor have every heard of that 'ritual'. I will agree with you that protestantism has become highly romanist in this regard. That is certainly not a good thing. If these folks feel that holding hands, much like one could feel that 'folding hands' or 'closing eyes' constitutes a 'real' vs. phony prayer -they are gravely mistaken.
"And as far as so-called "mindless" repetition, clearly you are wholly unfamiliar with the meditations that necessarily accompany the Rosary..."
It's the address to Mary that baffles me.
Now, if you want to take this into me and you discussing the correctness or incorrectness of RCC doctrine, I'm not interested. Something about pearls and swine. You are not interested, it would be futile.
My only point was to redirect your disgust of the_doc's frmail. My point being that IF the_doc's theology is correct, then his descriptions are correct. If he is correct, then his intentions were of ultimate love and kindness -blunt and hard thought they may be, but done out of true love and kindness. I think you've heard the term "Tough Love"? That is what you should think on, not his 'bluntness' -especially on a typewritten internet website. How can one possibly correctly construe intent. Rather, it is obviously quite easily misconstrued.
Jean
No, I know the difference between the Pater Noster and Kumbaya. :) I don't know how widespread the practice is, but I have seen it done numerous times.
The point is though...would it be something superstitious if it was done?
Would that not be an apt description of one following presumable false theology? Whether RCC or Protestant?
Again, yes, those words are blunt and to the point and 'not very nice' -intentionally so! Sometimes that is necessary.
Jean
Okay, so what if it is NOT correct? Obviously the same descriptions would still apply, only in the other direction
So are you both willing to draw onto yourselves the prestigious mantles of "dorks", "idiots" and "demonically controlled", "Satanically screwed" fools?
If all peple who were abused, whether physically or emotionally, verbally told someone the first time it happened there would fewer instances of abuse.
I would like to do that..but the other RC's will never let that happen JM..exactly what happened today would happen again..divert and if all else fails hit abuse
Dogs are faithful..you are called to know the truth..even if you do not like it
Jhn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Protestants rarely "say " the Our Father...we do not think it is a "prayer" that we were ever intended to "pray" it becomes vain babbling...
It is scripture and a prayer pattern..thats is it..
Let me guess Lutheran or Episcopalian ..or ecumenical services...
No? What words, what prayer could be more perfect than the one the perfect Man used? What mere human invention, from the lips and soul of a person stained with sin, could ever compare to it?
Where does "pray thus" in Matt 6:9 leave you the impression that these words are a mere guideline?
The cry of my heart to my God for forgivness and salvation...music to His ears..and the angels celebrated !!...
Pray after this manner.......is not a command to pray that prayer..but then you knew that
Of greater interest should be does God even hear your prayer.The only prayer of the unsaved He hears is the prayer for salvation (or if it was within His will)..so many "prayers" are said which God refuses to hear
In only a few words, it summarizes the sayings of the prophets, the gospels, the Apostles; the discourses, the parables, the examples and the precepts of the Lord and, at the same time, so much of our needs become fulfilled. In invoking the Father, we honour God; in the Name is the testimony of faith; in His will is the offering of obedience; in the Kingdom is the record of hope; in the Bread lies the question about life [sorry! had to slip that in!]; in the asking for pardon is the confession of sins; in the asking for protection is the fear of temptation.
It is the perfect prayer taught by our perfect savior. I love praying the Our Father!
Once again God loves to have His children come and talk to Him..omne on one...What we need to do is make sure that He will hear us..
The only prayer God hears from the unsaved is the prayer of repentence and the acceptance of His free gift of salvation through Jesus..
1 Samuel 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Psalm 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Jeremiah 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee
Jeremiah 11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.
Lamentations 3:8 Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer.
Lamentations 3:44 Thou hast covered thyself with a cloud, that our prayer should not pass through.
1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Proverbs 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
Proverbs 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
We assure God hears us by being rightly related to Him as His adopted Child
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.(Romans 5;15)
Salvation
- Is of God
#PS 3:8; Salvation [belongeth] unto the LORD: thy blessing [is] upon thy people. Selah.
- Is of the purpose of God
#2TI 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
- Is of the appointment of God
#1TH 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
- Is by Christ
EPH 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
- Is by Christ alone
AC 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
- Revealed in the gospel
#EPH 1:11-13; 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2TI 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
- CHRIST, . The Captain of our salvation
#HEB 2:9-10 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Christ the Author of our Salvation
#HEB 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Christ Appointed for our salvation
#ISA 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
. . . Mighty to effect
HEB 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
. Came to effect
#MT 18:11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
. Died to effect #JOH 3:14,15; 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
GA 1:4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
- Is not by works #RO 11:6And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
EPH 2:9;Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2TI 1:9;Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
TIT 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
- Is of grace #EPH 2:5,8;
2:5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God
2TI 1:9;Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
TIT 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
- Is through faith in Christ
#MR 16:16;He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
AC 16:31;And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
RO 10:9;That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. EPH 2:8;For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
1PE 1:5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
- Reconciliation to God,
#RO 5:10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
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