Abuse scandal angers conservative Catholics

Boston Globe ^ | 3/27/2002 | Michael Paulson

[uncbob]

that it is more difficult for homosexual men to lead chaste, celibate lives,"

Notice he doesn't say the problem is allowing homosexuals in to begin with is the problem

[sfousa]

I guess you can call it a conspiracy, but it's more like a movement, i.e., a lower intestinal movement.

I'm so very upset and saddened by this situation, but not surprised.

Here a thumbnail history, see for yourself.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ACADEMIC/FULLHEAR.HTM

[uglyworld]

Whatever their sexual orientation, seminarians should be educated on sexuality and advised on the difficulties they inevitably will encounter in living a beautiful, chaste lifestyle. It never ceases to amaze me that people want to shut the windows opened during Vatican II and shut out the "fresh air" (the Holy Spirit). Jesus was all about conversion and change. I don't think we should go as far as eliminating the celibacy requirement. I think it's a good thing. Women's ordination...I haven't thought about enough. If we tell people they have to be something they're not or think a certain way all the time, it will only make their inner-torments worse and create more scandals for the church.

[uncbob]

This brainwashing is a part of the 'seamless garment' of evil in the Church. The pro-liberal brainwashing that my kids and I have had to listen to, just to attend Mass, would make your skin crawl.

I have posted this before but here goes again
Liberal socialistic and or homosexuals are too ensconced to change the church. Notice the Pope has done NOTHING. NO action at all Probably becuase he doesn't know what to do. He would have to fire 90% of the hierarchy and at least 50% of the priests .
He can't do that so he does nothing. This is a tacit admission that the USA Church and probably the rest of the world is lost
What is needed is a schism or breakaway by catholics but because of the dependence of so many on the catholic school system is unlikely.

A country's culture is a reflection of its religious base and this is just a symptom of the cultural death of the USA as was Clinton's presidency

I saw this coming 20 years ago with the socialistic drift of the church including the Pope. It doesn't occur in a vacuum

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The toleration of public pro-abortion posturing by Catholics is certainly another area of delinquency. There are a whole bunch of things which the church in America has developed a culture of tolerance for (which should not be tolerated). Why have, for instance, Catholic colleges and universities been de-Catholicized with ruthless efficiency?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Most seminaries do have such courses. Some, however, are heavily influenced by psychobabble. At some of the Catholic colleges and universities you will even find pro-gay activists teaching similar courses on sexuality. Unfortunately, the homosexuals like this Fr. Shanley monster apparently never had any intention to lead celibate or chaste lives. He was never really a Catholic at heart.

[Mike Fieschko]

It never ceases to amaze me that people want to shut the windows opened during Vatican II and shut out the "fresh air" (the Holy Spirit).

If you (or anyone else) can provide an objective (such as numbers) measurement showing how the Church is better now than in 1962, I'll consider it. Absent that, I'll be generous for now and say that I suspend judgment on the decisions made since the Council and the performance of the hierarchy since then.

The objective criteria: marriages not ending in divorce, adherence to the teachings on contraception and abortion, baptisms, ordinations, admissions to the religious life, attendance at Mass, show a catastrophic decline.

The changes introduced since the Council were promoted as being antidotes to these.

Their introduction have been failures on the terms of those advocating them.

Jesus was all about conversion and change.

Rephrasing that to be more specific, He was about turning away from sin.

Also, welcome to Free Republic.

[St.Chuck]

William Donahoe said, " I don't know of a single Catholic priest or layman who isn't furious about the sex abuse scandal...."

I am a layman, and I am not furious. Certainly disappointed, saddened, not surprised. I honestly don't think that the hierarchy knew the nature of the beast that they were dealing with. Hopefully, the scales have fallen from their eyes and the appropriate reforms implemented....and yes, that means returning to a more orthodox paradigm.

I do not consider Buckley a conservative or traditional Catholic. His antipathy towards Humanae Vitae precludes those categories. Buchanan is a reactionary. Donahoe's rhetoric can only be explained by inertia. I trust that the pope and Christ's church will rectify this situation. Unfortunately for the media, and their subjects the pope will not act within the constrictions of the next news cycle. Patience.

[american colleen]

Thanks for the bump! Great article quoting some of my favorite Catholics.

[american colleen]

By objective criteria, the trads have a lot more evidence on their side than the 'conservatives.

Thanks for explaining the difference between trads and conservatives... I had used the terms interchangably - now I won't.

I was thinking tonight that here on FR, we Catholics probably are either Trad or Conservative - I'd guess if you popped over to DU, it would be quite different amongst the Catholics...might be interesting (and upsetting) to see what "liberal" Catholics are saying.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

OK. Fair enough. Thanks for the input. I think the Boston Globe may have been using the word "conservative" loosely in the conventional American political sense.Bennett, Buchanan, and Buckley are popularly thought of as political "conservatives" of sorts. (HMBA does not adhere to the conventional and popular understanding of a simplistic dichotomy between Democratic "liberals" and Republican "conservatives" as the main framework for interpreting culture). The landscape, intellectuallly, spiritually, and politically, is a lot more complicated than that with very hyphenated shades of gray here and there.

[Commander8]

This is what happens when a group of men(the Catholic clergy) decide that they are above the law and forget that Christ is head of the Church(as in the body of believers, all of Christianity not just Catholicism.) For a good history of this read The Trail of Blood by JW Carroll. It's a history of how the Catholic Church split from the loyal New Testament Churches(now called Baptist.)merged with the Roman Empire and falsely accused those who disgagreed with them of being "heretics". I am convinced that the same attitude that lead to the persecutions lead to the covering up for child molesters. It is an attitude that says "Look at me, I'm a Priest and above the law and I can do whatever I want to whomever I want."

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

the Catholic Church split from the loyal New Testament Churches (now called Baptist)

You need a new history book.

[Commander8]

Well that's what really happened. The Catholic Church split from the loyal New Testament Churches and then with the backing of the Roman Empire began persecuting the Christians who were in the original New Testament Church. These Christians were falsely accused of being heretics and those who were not burned at the stake were chased into the alps. They became known as Anabaptists (re baptizers) because they rejected infant baptism and would baptize people who were baptized in other faiths as infants and later they were known simply as Baptists.

[Antoninus]

Hey, what ever you do, don't stop going to church! Find a better parish church to attend and make sure you're an agitator on campus. The kind of garbage you're describing is exactly what I saw in college... in Boston 10 years ago. We all know what the situation in that particular diocese is now. We can't afford to continue to let these wolves in sheeps clothing operate unopposed.

[Mike Fieschko]

The Trail of Blood by JW Carroll

Why doesn't this discuss Acts 15, especially 15:19 and 15:23? Do you claim that this was a democratic assembly of all believers, deciding by vote not of 'apostles and elders' but of all in the 'congregation? Do you claim that it was optional to accept the writing in Acts 15:23? If yes, what evidence do you have for that interpretation?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Let's try this again.

According to H. Leon McBeth's 'The Baptist Heritage', the earliest evidence for Baptist existence is around 1608 or 1609. After the Reformation, there was still much division and confusion in the Church of England. Two groups emerged out of this: the Puritans and the Separitists. Out of the Separitist movement came an Anglican priest who left the Church of England and formed the Baptist movement. His name was John Smyth. John Smyth was responsible for the Baptist movement in Holland and a man named Thomas Helwys stayed in England nurturing the Baptist movement there. At that time there were two Baptist groups: General Baptists and Particular Baptists. Smyth, a General Baptist, is quoted as saying "There is no succession in the outward church, but all that succession is from heaven." This was stated as response to the fact that the newly formed Baptist movement had no historical lineage to the time of Christ. A pastor named John Spilsbury, a Particular Baptist, has this to say "There is no succession under the New Testament but what is spiritually by faith and the Word of God."

The author who wrote the 'Trail of Blood' belongs to a minority group known as Landmarkists (Baptists). He subscribes to a successionist view of Baptist history although he is unable to provide any credible evidence for this and his book is widely dismissed by a majority of Baptists for its lack of historical evidence and inadequate sources. Landmarkists are notorious for their hatred of Catholics and this book appears to have been based solely on that.

McBeth and several other sources state the difficulty of determining and varied opinions of Baptist origins. "For every two Baptists you'll get three opinions on the origins of the Baptists."

[tiki]

Exactly, everyone acts like the pope should be chasing the news cameras and giving hourly updates on what is being done. And since he isn't they just assume nothing is being done.

[tiki]

ROTFLMAO

[Dumb_Ox]

One Freeper spent a fair part of Easter weekend debunking part of the _Trail of Blood_ "chain of evidence." Take a look: Cardinal Stanislaus Hosius: what did he really about the "ancient" Baptists ^