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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)
Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

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TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: CindyDawg
So be sure to let me know what some of the tips are they give in the book.

Becky
52,721 posted on 05/10/2003 7:15:05 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: CindyDawg
Mail Call:)

Becky
52,722 posted on 05/10/2003 7:19:16 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: ventana
Who met this condition? To say "no" is disobedient. To work after saying NO is to work because you will it, not because He does.

To say "NO" is defiant and disrespectful, but not disobedient. This is because obedience/disobedience is in the complying/not complying of the subject of a command.

Even if you were to say "Yes" to a command, and then, immediately, proceeded to comply with the command, you would still be doing it because you willed it. It is simply that you have bent your will to comply with that of another.

The clue, for me, is that you are both choosing the same son that the Priests did. Are you saying that the priests were right?

As JH previously stated, JESUS, when dealing with the Pharisees, often ask questions of them which had very obvious answers, and, just as obviously, reflected badly upon the Pharisees. As JH further said, in most of these cases, the Pharisees realized what Jesus was doing and would, simply, refuse to give Him an answer.

Are you saying Jesus was saying sinners went to Heaven?

Well, of course sinners (in that they have sinned) go to heaven! Forgiven sinners! That's what the publicans and harlots were who JESUS was speaking of. They had been sinners, but had listened to and believed JESUS' preaching, and so, had received forgiveness of their sins.

This is exactly what the Pharisees were unwilling to do. The Pharisees thought that they had it all in the bag, due to their works. When JESUS would explain to them that they needed forgiveness just like publicans and harlots, they were highly insulted. The Pharisees steadfastly refused to hear JESUS' message and so, their sins (the chiefest of which was pride) continued unforgiven.

I would recommend more study of the Gospels to check this out.

Why not start with the following passages and proceed from there ...
Luke 7:36 Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table.

37 When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume,

38 and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is-- that she is a sinner."

40 Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you." "Tell me, teacher," he said.

41 "Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.

42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"

43 Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled." "You have judged correctly," Jesus said.

44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.

45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet.

46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.

47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven-- for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

49 The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

50 Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."


Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

52,723 posted on 05/10/2003 7:22:29 PM PDT by Quester
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To: DouglasKC
It's a good story in a sad sort of way if you know what I mean.

Sure I know what you mean. Mack and I were just talking how quiet it has been around here this evening. It's sad but probably for the best. She finally gets to relax. We're trying to figure out if the other two realize where she is. Do dogs know that sort of thing? I keep thinking of the movie "Where the Red Fern Gorwns" Do you suppose that is true, not about the fern but that one animal grieves for another?

Becky

52,724 posted on 05/10/2003 7:24:25 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
I will. I'm reading the introduction right now (kind of a history). Only instruction so for is "don't forget the carrots" :')
52,725 posted on 05/10/2003 7:27:07 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
you suppose that is true, not about the fern but that one animal grieves for another?

I think so although what we experience as grief probably isn't quite the same as what an animal experiences. But there seems to be something there, especially with dogs.

52,726 posted on 05/10/2003 7:39:49 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: CindyDawg
Yep. An orange, "The complete IDIOT"S guide to Horses" book. 14.95 plus tax at Walden's (minus my 10% discount)

I should have guessed...they seem to have just about every kind of Dummy or Idiots book out there. :-)

52,727 posted on 05/10/2003 7:42:47 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: CindyDawg
Yep. An orange, "The complete IDIOT"S guide to Horses" book. 14.95 plus tax at Walden's (minus my 10% discount)

I should have guessed...they seem to have just about every kind of Dummy or Idiots book out there. :-)

52,728 posted on 05/10/2003 7:43:27 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: CindyDawg
Yep. An orange, "The complete IDIOT"S guide to Horses" book. 14.95 plus tax at Walden's (minus my 10% discount)

I should have guessed...they seem to have just about every kind of Dummy or Idiots book out there. :-)

52,729 posted on 05/10/2003 7:48:16 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
I should have guessed...they seem to have just about every kind of Dummy or Idiots book out there. :-)

Doug, whatever did you think I was talking about?

52,730 posted on 05/10/2003 7:49:05 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Return mail
52,731 posted on 05/10/2003 7:50:19 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg
Doug, whatever did you think I was talking about?

I don't know. Judging from my past inability to correctly sort things out I'm afraid to say anything. :-)

52,732 posted on 05/10/2003 8:09:33 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: in_principio_erat_Verbum
Those who overcome are those "born of God". How they overcome is by the Will and Power of God, and what "overcoming" means is to be accepted in the family of God.

And to obey his commandments.

52,733 posted on 05/10/2003 9:22:28 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant (How's my posting? Call 1-800-Matthew 1:24-25)
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To: ventana; JHavard
The clue, for me, is that you are both choosing the same son that the Priests did. Are you saying that the priests were right?

Yes!

Matthew 23:
[1] Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples,
[2] "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat;
[3] so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.

52,734 posted on 05/11/2003 8:02:01 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN))
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To: drstevej
***Following the conversation on OSAS, I must say I'm somewhat confused as to how one can believe in OSAS and NOT be a Calvinist. *** You are right, there is a consistency between Calvinism and OSAS. Likewise I believe there is an inconsistency between Arminianism and OSAS. Arminians argue that man is free to choose or reject the gospel. Some Arminians see this free choice as inherent in man other Arminians see this choice as the product of pre-venient [enabling] grace. The emphasis is that man is free to chose or reject the gospel. OSAS Arminians then say that God keeps those He has saved and that the eternal life they have is eternal and not forfeitable. At this point they become "functional Calvinists." There is an inconsistency, IMO.

No, because Calvinists do not believe in OSAS, they believe in 'perservation of the Saints' which is different.

In other words, you may be one of the 'elect' but only your fruit will tell and then not fully until the end of your life.

You could be 'deceived' into thinking you were one of the elect.

Once saved always saved states that once a profession of faith has been made, that person (if he meant it) is now in union with Christ, one Body with Him and His bride.

It is that relationship that is the basis of 'OSAS' not unconditional election.

That is the Dispensational Baptist view.

Here is a further one. From the Arminian perspective, how could we know that no one in heaven will exercise free will (and free will is a part of being truly human and the only position consistent with a God of love, they say) and decide to leave heaven or choose to disobey. Would not the absence of free will in heaven be a tryannical action on the part of God?

In the Church age, your choice for God is final.

Free will is an issue in the flesh, not in the Resurrection body, when our will will unite with God's.

The believer in heaven can no more reject God then can the Holy angels who chose for God when Lucifer rebelled.

That you can sin now is an aspect of your free will which even Calvinists admit, but 'freedom' will not longer be there either.

Unless you want to say that that God is responsible for your sinning.

Amazing how philosophical speculation is more important to a Calvinist then what the Bible says (Col.2:8)

52,735 posted on 05/11/2003 1:49:46 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: ventana; JHavard
ventana; JHavard

Hummmm, I wonder why Herbert chose that one? Lol
What are you implying? Is that Garner Ted's dad?
v>This assigning Biblical church identities to current denominations is something new to me, and XSt linked to it the other day as well. Is this something you still believe? Any links to reasons why, rather than them just being the Churches back then?
v.

52,509 posted on 05/09/2003 5:42 AM MDT by ventana

Here is another view:

The Seven Churches of The Revelation

or

Google : < "Seven Churches" Revelation >



chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

52,736 posted on 05/11/2003 2:24:42 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Becky,

Chapter1. horses been around 60 million years, not a theory but a fact

Chapter2. different roles for horses. required a lot of concentration to read.,

Chapter3. different kinds of horses and identification. Lot' of detail. Fell asleep reading. Will have to review

Chapter4. bloodlines. I skipped it for now

Chapter5. Here we go

no markings the same. useful to identify if stolen

never walk directly behind a horse. duh!

Chapter6. Among a list of other things, don't give your horse: marijuana, tobacco, or St. John's wort! What have some horse owners been up to, that they would have to put something like this in a book? Guess it explains chapter 1. lol

52,737 posted on 05/11/2003 2:58:40 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: fortheDeclaration
If predestination means that God gives everyone a choice but knows who will accept Him and who will not and calls His choosen the "elect", then I can agree with that. If on the other hand you are saying he looks at two innocent babies and says to one "you are mine "and to the other "go to hell" then I have a big problem with that. That isn't just and means we are only puppets, don't you think?
52,738 posted on 05/11/2003 3:11:27 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: XeniaSt
Wow.
52,739 posted on 05/11/2003 5:48:14 PM PDT by ventana
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To: CindyDawg
never walk directly behind a horse. duh

I guess my dog never read this book....I don't know if I should put a smiley or sad face after that remark:) :(

What have some horse owners been up to, that they would have to put something like this in a book?

Well...my horse gets beer:) The book sounds like it belongs in the bathroom, and not for reading:) Just kidding.

Did you go shopping for one yet?

Becky

52,740 posted on 05/11/2003 7:38:16 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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