Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Yes, and I wish to apologize if I offended you as a religious conservative non Catholic.
SD
Slow down. You're reading too fast. :-)
Yes, that is your thesis. And IF all of those things are true, I agree with you.
Protestants also believe that we partner with God to accomplish His will in our lives.
I don't hear a lot about this. I usually hear all about how God does everything and we contribute nothing.
Protestants believe that to so partner with God guarantees that our salvation will be accomplished, if only for so long as it is our intention that our salvation be accomplished.
Huh? I am not getting you. It sounds like you are saying if our intention changes, then God doesn't any longer guarantee our salvation. Which is not OSAS.
A question for you ... If you truly believe that one can fall away from salvation, how would one go about it ?
I don't believe one can fall away from salvation. I believe one can truly believe in his heart that he is "Saved," but later his actions will demonstrate that his "assurance" of salvation was false.
The truly saved are saved, no doubt.
It is deciding that we are them, without the benefit of living our lives that is the trouble. If we are them then we will lives our lives accordingly. If we are not them, at some point we will fall.
It does no good to assume you are them, only to discover later you are not. Just persevere every day. That's all we can do.
As Christians, we have decided, via the use of our free-will, to join up with God at some point in our lives.
That is the presumption that I am discussing.
Wouldn't it follow that, once we have joined up with God, we would have to make a similar use of our free-will (i.e. decide) to nullify our relationship with Him ?
Or do you contend that such a thing can happen far more implicitly ?
I don't think a lot of people who believed they were saved but later fell away made a conscious decision to do so. It's just that life and other things start to intrude, bad habits creep in, and before you know it you are living in sin.
SD
CMU grad.
SD
No, I will not give you my love child ... oh, wait, that was a different freepmail... ;o)
Sure, I'll get a reply back to you sometime this weekend.
1. The people were one, and they had one language. (Genesis 11:6)
2. The Tower of Babel was built to reach heaven and exalt the name of the people above God. (Genesis 11:4)
3. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was survival. (Genesis 11:4)
Why is it that this sort of thing only happens in hockey? I remember several years ago the #1 seed St. Louis Blues losing in the first round to the #8 seed (don't remember who it was).
Well, signing it Dave was pretty insulting, but I'll give you a pass on it. ;o)
You don't sign your letters to the editor "SoothingDave"? ;o)
Unbelievable
Ralston, a former engineer for Intel who lives in Aspen, Colorado, had set off for a one-day trip on Saturday, April 26 hiking and rock climbing in Canyonlands National Park. He was trying to get on top of a rock and jammed his feet and hands into crevices to get a better hold. Just then the rock shifted, pinning his arm.
Ralston was stuck for five days and ran out of water after three. On Thursday he used a pocketknife to cut off his right arm below the elbow, then rappelled down a rock wall and hiked exhausted and dehydrated until he ran into some hikers who flagged down a rescue helicopter 60 miles (100 km) south of Green River, Utah.
Did you know him there?
This has been all over the news here. They even carried his press conference live yesterday.
Cause hockey's tough. A more physical team can wear down a "more talented" team over a seven game series. So much rides on momentum and a lucky bounce here or there.
Also, the rules are called (not called, rather) in such a way to encourage physical play. Plus, in hockey most of the players play. In basketball if your starting 5 are better than the other teams, you should win.
In hockey, you can have two great scoring lines, but if your 3rd and 4th line guys aren't up to the task of mucking and grinding, you can still get beat.
SD
Nope. But he exemplifies the kind of viril, tough masculine men one would expect from one of the nation's top engineering and computer science schools. LOL
SD
Well, one thing the EU can't decide on is one language. They have 5 or 6 official languages and employ armies of translators.
SD
True but language and distance is sure less of a barrier to establish one world government today than it was 25 years ago.
Protestants believe that to so partner with God guarantees that our salvation will be accomplished, if only for so long as it is our intention that our salvation be accomplished.
Huh? I am not getting you. It sounds like you are saying if our intention changes, then God doesn't any longer guarantee our salvation. Which is not OSAS.
All Protestants do not believe in OSAS. I happen to believe that it is a matter of the will.
I believe that God, in this regard, gives to us what we want.
If we want to spend eternity with Him, He makes it so.
If we do not wish to spend eternity with Him, He will not force us.
The further question might be ... would one who has turned to God ever opt to turn away ? How deep-seated is such a decision ? Is such a thing inherently tied to our being ... such that we would have to become a different person to make a different decision ?
The truly saved are saved, no doubt.
It is deciding that we are them, without the benefit of living our lives that is the trouble. If we are them then we will lives our lives accordingly. If we are not them, at some point we will fall.
If we are not them, we have nowhere to fall from.
It does no good to assume you are them, ...
Obviously, John the Apostle felt that there is some good to knowing that we have eternal life. Elsewise, why would he endeavor to make it so ?1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,[1] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Exactly.
If we are not them, we have nowhere to fall from.
Fall from the path that leads to righteousness.
It does no good to assume you are them, ...
Obviously, John the Apostle felt that there is some good to knowing that we have eternal life. Elsewise, why would he endeavor to make it so ?
This is back to square one. John wrote that we can know we have eternal life if we believe and follow the commandments. Not that we can know just by our "believing."
SD
this tells us who overcomes the world, not what overcoming the world means.
Let's look at it again.I John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.Whosoever is born of God (a one-time event) will overcome the world. It is a God-guaranteed given.
5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
Was leaving out the part about "to obey His commands" intentional?
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