Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
The 2nd commandment.
Becky, is it in the bible that one of the church's lampstands was taken away?
Will a threat do?
Revelation 2:5
Remember then from what you have fallen, repent and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
1 John 5 3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
That is exactly what it says. Such a statement, on its face, is rather appalling.
Where does the scripture say this ?
Well, everywhere. But specifically, the one we were talking about is here:
1 john 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
The "commandment" we keep is to believe and to love one another. Not just to believe.
And he that keeps this commandment dwelleth in Him and vice versa.
Now perhaps you wish to argue that it does not explicitly say that those who do not keep the commandment do not dwell in Him, but that is the plain meaning.
Note again, that dwelling in him is contingent upon believing in Him and loving others.
SD
I think it was aimed at me. I felt like he was calling me a fool. :-)
It is a simple statement of fact.
SD
Are you a Protestant hater?
He wasn't (a man) at the time.
I would suggest that conjugations of the verb "to be" carry a little more meaning when applied to God than to man.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (Exodus 3:14)
You're kidding right? What does "obey his commands" mean to you?
We do, however, have "Minnie" and "Mickey". ;o)
I'm guessing the one signed by "Dave". ;o)
I agree.
I think you sidestepped the point. I was not claiming anything about what we can or can not do apart from God. I was making the point that the race is won when we win the race. Not when we decide we are going to train and run the race.
It's not that much to ask, really.
There was a Seinfeld episode where Kramer tells Jerry all about his plan to get rid of all his furniture and build a series of "levels" in his apartment. Jerry bets Kramer that he will never get it done.
Later, Jerry asks about it and Kramer says he decided not to do it, so the bet was off. Jerry points out, to no avail, that that was exactly what he bet on.
All of which is by way of illustration that intentions are not concrete facts. We can intend to live a life of faith and following Jesus, but we can't say we have done so until we do so.
If Kramer had agreed with and partnered with God in regard to his intentions AND God had guaranteed that He and Kramer would fulfill those intentions, then Kramer would know that he (and God) would complete his intentions from the day that God guaranteed it.
This is a major dividing point. Catholics do not say we acheive without God or of our own power. Rather, we recognize our free agency ability to allow God to work through us, or to not do so.
The Protestant idea that we play no part whatsoever in our day-to-day activities and choices just doesn't seem realistic to us. We get up in the morning and we can decide to do God's work (that is, allow God to use us to do His work), or we can get up in the morning and decide to be all for our selves. We really make this choice in a free manner.
Therefore, anything we do of merit is the result of God and us working together. For sure we are the infinitely junior partner, but we do have to give God reign over our will. That is our contribution to the partnership and it is not a trivial thing.
Protestants also believe that we partner with God to accomplish His will in our lives.
Protestants believe that to so partner with God guarantees that our salvation will be accomplished, if only for so long as it is our intention that our salvation be accomplished.
A question for you ... If you truly believe that one can fall away from salvation, how would one go about it ?
As Christians, we have decided, via the use of our free-will, to join up with God at some point in our lives.
Wouldn't it follow that, once we have joined up with God, we would have to make a similar use of our free-will (i.e. decide) to nullify our relationship with Him ?
Or do you contend that such a thing can happen far more implicitly ?
Regarding this, ... how do you interpret the following scripture ?John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.What does it mean when JESUS says that He will not cast out any who come to Him ?
6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
What does it mean when JESUS says that He will not lose any of those which God has given Him ?
What was the initial seeding for the Wild and the Ducks in the west? I know the Ducks beat the #1 and #2 seeds.
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