The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[malakhi]

What happens if you commit a sin against God or man for that matter and die before you repent or ask forgiveness? What would be the status of your soul? Say King David died before he was able to repent of his sin with Bathsheba. What would have happened to him in the here after?

Unlike some forms of Christianity, Judaism does traditionally teach that repentance after death is possible. Those who die lacking in righteousness go to Gehinnom. Similar to the Catholic purgatory, it is a place of repentance and purification.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You ain't never gonna understand until you're born again, until you have been given the gift of the Holy Spirit. Its the way it works. I was just like you in a sense, I was a member of a works based church that believed you had to be baptized and keep yourself saved by works, it all sounded right to me, I even read in the Bible where it said so, then one day I came across eph 2:8-9 and went what? I asked God to show me what this meant and He did, I trusted in Christ ONLY and boom, Holy Sprit moved in and started teaching me and here I are to day, born again, washed in the blood, praising God the Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit.

It can happen to you. :)

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Thanks, I enjoyed that:)

Becky

[DouglasKC]

Ridiculous. He still covets the money, he still desires to have the money come to him. Or else he wouldn't sign the contract to begin with.

Unless he's mentally unbalanced or a criminal there's no way that he desires the money to "come to him". He may desire it to go to a benificary, but it's still a far cry from casino gambling.

Look, you're making the argument that it's okay to covet as long as your motivations are good. I don't agree with that any more than I agree that it's okay to steal as long as your motives are good.

The fact is there are many types of ventures that fit this exact description and gambling is only one of them. I could take $50,000 and open up a bagel shop and rifle range and lose it all. I open the shop not to lose the money, but to risk the money in order to gain more.

Why do you want more money?

Or I could take the $50,000 and play poker in Atlantic City. Again, my skill as a player combined with other factors, uncontrollable, presents me with the opportunity to make a great gain, or to lose it all.

Sorry Dave...I'm trying to reconcile how we live our lives today with how they will be led in God's kingdom. Obviously it's impossible to escape the sin in our society entirely and God knows I'm far from perfect but that doesn't mean we don't let God work in us and obey his mandate to let him make us holy.

[DouglasKC]

I think Jesus would have had an unfair advantage. Now, I can picture Paul sidling up to people in a casino and engaging them.

Would Jesus be happy or not care if his disciples decided to go drop a couple hundred dollars at a casino?

I think the ansewr is obvious...Jesus would find fault with it. Since Christians profess to be disciples of Christ, why would I possibly do anything that is against his wishes?

[DouglasKC]

If I'm playing a game of croquet in the back yard with my family and somebody says the winner gets a buck from everyone else. I really don't give a crap whether I win or not. But I don't refuse the money if I do.

If the money don't matter then why is the money there in the first place?

[DouglasKC]

Well. Let's see what Doug said in post 51590: You can gamble without it being about money, but it becomes wrong when you gamble for money. It becomes wrong when you gamble for money. That's what he said. I said to "Gamble with a financial payoff." I suppose you will now, rather than apologize, find some way that what I said was different.

You are flat out wrong Dave. The issue was about life insurance. My position is that life insurance isn't sinful because the person "betting" stands to gain absolutely nothing and thus isn't coveting anything, except perhaps a better life for his family after he's gone.

You redefined my position based on your own opinion, not mine.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

If the money don't matter then why is the money there in the first place?

Makes everybody concentrate more. The level of consentration is better. I'll let the Lord define coveteousness, not you.

[CindyDawg]

Patronizing snob!

Yikes Reggie! When I opened my mail I thought you were talking to me. It's ok. I wasn't offended. Ventana is usually a very nice poster. If it were any other subject than religion, he would look at it differently. He just got defensive because I asked him to take his own advice.

[CindyDawg]

What's to be expected from the group which invented Bingo?

Ever play Chalupa?

[CindyDawg]

Manifestation is different for different people. I would assume that's up to the HS and likely has much to do with the faith and preparedness of the person. Some can see the spirits, Some merely get a sensation like dread that builds as one approaches the thing, Some are tipped by a sensation of smell - not my favorite because it usually is quite foul (like the smell of raw sewage in a septic system). A lot of times one will get a mix of these. These are the ones most common in my experience

This is really spooky stuff. Were you born like this? Can you control it? With all the evil in this world I would think you would be a basket case.

[CindyDawg]

I don't aspire to be a millionaire. I only wish to have a happy life and give the same to my family. My treasures await me in the next life.

I don't either but I am not happy if I'm broke. As long as I have enough saved to get by awhile if something happened (and I'm not just talking about money), enough to pay the bills and some left over for Walmarts I'm happy. I'm older than you though and my goal is to be self employed. I don't care about being rich but I want Eddie and I to be able to take time off when we want.

[RobbyS]

Yeah, Sunday worship is traditional, But so are the words of the New Testament.

[CindyDawg]

Of ocurse it is desireable to be independent, but not everyone can sock away 15% or more into investments, let alone good investments.

You can, if you put it aside and then forget about it. I put my offering back first and then what I want to save. The more you make the more you spend. Likewise if you cut back you adjust. Besides, generic ketchup is not bad. Too much sugar in the stuff though :')

[ventana]

I hate posting long posts, but here goes

First of all. Scripture does not rebut Scripture. Scripture can explain or enrich another Scripture, but it cannot make it meaningless. Secondly, I did respond to all your posts.

By the way, one of the scriptures I had asked you to explain what it meant to you that you ignored was??..

1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Please don't look up someone else's answer, but search the Spirit for the answer, as I do.

Please look over my response in post 51389, you will find I have already responded to your query as to 1 Cor 3:14. It did not occur to me to look up someone else's answer, although I am certain there are those who have already provided inciteful analyses that we could all benefit from reading, or quoting.

...failed to address a single scripture out of the 17 I had given you, so my study was a waste since they didn't seem to warrant a mention from you.

I did specifically address one of your passages in James 1:12, perhaps you did not notice it was among the passages you had posted.

I did not respond to each and every scripture because all 7 (outside of counting every verse of 1 Cor 9:17-27) were supporting the same point, which I feel is misguided.

All of the theorizing about the various crowns is very creative, overlooking only one thing. All of these crowns are one crown, and one thing, the thing that Jesus promised us.

Incorruptible Crown=Eternal Life
Crown of Life=Eternal Life
Crown of Righteousness=Eternal Life
Crown for standing fast=Eternal Life
Crown of Rejoicing=Eternal Life

I think James 1:12 makes that more than clear.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Jesus made no promise of a Crown. What was the promise? Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. There it is, that's "The Crown." And how shall this be? James 1:12 tells you all you need to know: Because you resisted the world. And how shall this be? 1 Cor 9:27 tells you all you need to know: Because you kept "under your body" (resisted temptation). Because you kept running. So that you would not be Castaway/Reprobate/unapproved.

And if I may be so bold as to argue your side. (other side speaks) "It says there, RIGHT THERE, that all you have to do is believe!" (other side finishes speaking, for that is the entire argument)

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

By all means believe Him. Believe every word He told you. Believe a book filled to overflowing about resisting sin, and being sent out into the fields to work, and about putting on his yoke. Believe his apostles exhorting to all who would listen to resist, to endure, and to run.

But don't believe it when someone tells you that once you are saved you are always saved, because that's not scriptural.

v.

[ventana]

No, really, not offended at all, and I hope you weren't either.

[Havoc]

No, no. This is something that comes with the HS. And it kicks in When the HS has something to show or say. God's gifts are in effect when God has something to say. It's His, not mine. That's the difference between God's gifts and the false and decietful fraud of the devil's. Psychics, soothsayers, enchanters, ect all call upon demons to do their bidding and act as if it is a power they have. If the morons knew they were but grinding monkies, they might get a clue. God controls his gifts. And He doesn't drive people mad with them - that's how the devil works.

[CindyDawg]

Well as long as you aren't in front of me at the checkout holding up the line, I guess:')

[CindyDawg]

Nah :')

[CindyDawg]

oops. Forgot to remove my tag line. It wasn't meant for you.