The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[malakhi]

I like Pitt in the Big 10. Penn State would have to play them again.

Alternatively, I'd be happy poaching Iowa State or Missouri from the Big 12, or adding West Virginia or even Marshall.

[SoothingDave]

vmatt, call your office! ;o)

A prophet is never recognized in his hometown. ;-)

And by doing so you do the same thing Catholics have accused solascripturians of doing -- reading 21st century customs backwards into a 1st century mileau. There was no recognized, legal adoption process in biblical Judaism.

No. I'm not doing this. I am saying that this was one special case. As far as the greater society could tell Jesus was the son of Joseph. That He was actually the Son of God should increase, not decrease His honors.

Think about it. If God gives you a child to care for, are you going to consider him just a ward, but with no legal claim to what is yours?

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

So, are you gonna share your seminar notes?

NOW you've done it! Are ya happy now? It was almost 5 hrs ago that he asked me that same question, and its been quiet up until NOW, BIGMOUTH!

BigMack

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Alternatively, I'd be happy poaching Iowa State or Missouri from the Big 12,

And then they could trade conference logos. :-)

[malakhi]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)

"Him that sent" Jesus was YHWH, God the Father, correct? I believe in Him! Thus, according to Jesus's own words, I am saved.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

BigMack

[malakhi]

The father has no sin so Yeshua wouldn't be suffering for him. He's suffering for mine and your sorry behinds. Its called grace, mercy, lovingkindness, unmerited favor etc. etc. :-)

Read the second half of the verse:

the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself

I don't see how you can get around the plain meaning of this passage.

[OLD REGGIE]

Do you believe that Matthias was the twelth apostle??

I believe "the twelve" are mentioned after Judas and prior to Paul. The short answer is yes. Why do you ask?

[OLD REGGIE]

God does not make His decisions this way, but He certainly has revealed them this way.

Projecting egalitarian democracy upon this event is just a mite bit ethno-centric.

Why don't you choose the Popes this way? After all, there is no other way an Apostles is chosen by other Apostles.

[malakhi]

How do you understand this, in light of your beliefs about the sacrificial death of Jesus?

A rabbit going down the trail. :)

That doesn't answer the question, Mack. We both believe that Ezekiel is the word of God. I read that passage, and I cannot reconcile that with orthodox Christian belief about the sacrificial death of Jesus. You somehow must. How?

[SoothingDave]

I don't see how you can get around the plain meaning of this passage.

The plain meaning of the passage seems to be that God will judge or consider each person as an individual. Neither sin nor righteousness is inherited. It's about how God treats man, not a limitation on how God Himself can act.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Why don't you choose the Popes this way? After all, there is no other way an Apostles is chosen by other Apostles.

Who says we don't? ;-)

SD

[malakhi]

NOW you've done it! Are ya happy now? It was almost 5 hrs ago that he asked me that same question, and its been quiet up until NOW, BIGMOUTH!

LOL! :o)

[malakhi]

And then they could trade conference logos. :-)

Sheer brilliance, Steven, thanks! ;o)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Allow me to fire the first salvo. :-)

That Christians, because they have greater light, are under greater obligation to observe the precepts of the law than any others, is emphasized by the BAPTIST PUBLICATION SOCIETY in its Tract No. 64 which declares:

"To prove that the ten commandments are binding, let any person read them, one by one, and ask his own conscience as he reads, whether it would be any sin to break them. Is this, or any part of it, the liberty of the gospel? Every conscience that is not seared with a hot iron must answer these questions in the negative...The lawgiver and the Saviour were one; and believers must be of one mind with the former as well as with the latter; but if we depreciate the law which Christ delighted to honour, and deny our obligations to obey it, how are we of His mind? Rather are we not of that mind which is emnity against God, which is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be? If the law be not a rule of conduct to believers, and a perfect rule too, they are under no rule; or, which is the same thing, are lawless. But if so, they commit no sin; for where no law is there is no transgression; and in this case they have no sins to confess, either to God or to one another; nor do they stand in need of Christ as an advocate with the Father, nor of daily forgiveness through His blood. Thus it is, by disowning the law, men utterly subvert the gospel. Believers, therefore, instead of being freed from obligation to obey it, are under greater obligation do so than any men in the world. To be exempt from this is to be without law, and of course without sin; in which case we might do without a Saviour which is utterly subversive of all religion." (pages 2-6)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself

I don't see how you can get around the plain meaning of this passage.

Simple. Messiah is God. This verse was speaking to men who had no power to lay down their lives for the atonement of mankind.

[malakhi]

Declare and present your case;
let them take counsel together!
Who told this long ago?
Who declared it of old?
Was it not I, ?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.
"Turn to me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
By myself I have sworn,
from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
`To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.'
"Only in , it shall be said of me,
are righteousness and strength;
to him shall come and be ashamed,
all who were incensed against him.
In ll the offspring of Israel
shall triumph and glory." (Isaiah 45:21-25)

[malakhi]

not a limitation on how God Himself can act.

I disagree. God is Just.

[malakhi]

Why don't you choose the Popes this way? After all, there is no other way an Apostles is chosen by other Apostles.

Who says we don't? ;-)

Maybe you could get David Stern to read off the ping pong balls. ;o)

[OLD REGGIE]

How many do you count? ;-)

1 Corinthians 15
[5] and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
[6] Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
[7] Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
[8] Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
[9] For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.