Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
Yall know where Mary is? I mean physically, where she was buried/tombed?
Like Elijah, Mary was assumed, body and soul, into Heaven after her life was over.
Catholic Christians make extensive use of relics, including bones, of saints. Yet there are no relics of Mary's body. This is a testament to the universal belief that her body is not on earth.
So how would your life change if her remains were found and she was genetically determined to be the mother of James?
As another said, the very existence of her remains on earth would be a repudiation of the Church. The Church has taught, infallibly, that Mary's remains are not here. So if they were found and authenticated, that would mean that the Church was wrong.
Which would absolutely destroy the very foundation of the Church as inerrant. Which would be a monumentally world-changing event.
In my case, if it was determined she was an eternal virgin I would be surprised but it wouldn't affect my faith or beliefs. You didn't answer my question about how your church would feel about testing.
So. Everyone you know and trust, including your own eyes and ears, and the Holy Spirit which guides you to Truth while reading Scripture, would have been proven to have been wrong. And this "wouldn't affect" your faith or beliefs.
And on top of this, the one Church that you know from you private reading of Scripture to be "wrong" on some many things is proven right, despite your own person reading of Scripture that says otherwise.
And this wouldn't give you pause?
SD
Not really, according to This there are over 30,000 denominations. Besides, only a multiplicity of two would be enough to make the point.
It says no such thing. It never says that Mary is a sinner.
You haphazardly read general statements as absolutes.
SD
This could just mean he went up into the sky.
SD
I'm sorry to hear that. May he rest in peace with God, and may God comfort his family.
I wanted to know before this new formate was there not in the late 90's an ungoing thread. Also I am confused I knew you always by anglo it seems like a short years ago and it says you changed your name in 2001?
Just processin my mental timeline!
ROFL. Thanks Ksen, I needed that.
Since no blood from the woman donor goes into the fetus, and the womb is like a fleshy eggshell, that doesn't leave traces of itself on that which was in it, how can this make the fetus unclean as you imply?
Cindy, see here somewhere where it makes a difference.
Jim, if you want to believe that a fetus is unrelated to its mother, that is your perogative.
Just remember that we believe otherwise. That Jesus inherits His humanity from His mother. It is this inheritance that we are concerned with, not with the exchange of blood to the fetus.
SD
Bible: Revised Standard Version
Searchable a variety of ways, and includes the deuterocanonical books from the "Old Testament".
There are a number of online Douay-Rheims as well, if you prefer, but the search capabilities are not as good.
Since He came for the sinner, does it seem reasonable that he would require a divine womb, or would he be born from a woman who represented those He came to save?
Again, we see this peculiar idea that a woman without sin is somehow "divine." I wonder where this idea comes from.
Stay tuned.
Jim, another thought. Remember Isaiah has a vision and has his lips seared with a coal to purify them. Because nothing impure can stand in God's presence.
How do we expect the Holy Spirit to come upon Mary without destroying her unless she is first made clean, a worthy receptacle for God to reside in?
SD
Your analogy is specious.
Legal or illegal, abortion is against God's law.
Why don't you compare the abortion rate amongst the group of people frequently denigrated as "Bible thumpers" with any other group.
When you sin now, it only effects the flesh, not our Spirit that is now protected by Christ Spirit, which can not sin.
The idea that we are pure spirits trapped in sinful bodies is called "gnosticism." It is an ancient heresy.
Sin is sin because it adheres to our souls, changing our very being.
You seem to be considering your flesh as the heart of a person, but its simply a covering that will be discarded when you die, and it’s what pleasures in sin in us now. When your sinful flesh dies, it’ll have no effect on your spirit that Christ has indwelled in you.
Human beings are body and soul united. We expect a new body at the Resurrection. We sin because of who we are, nto because we happen to be saddled with a dirty body, from which we need liberated.
SD
anatomy and physiology
And which view "wouldn't work?"
Man's. Our knowledge as of today is that the female egg is X chromosone. The male sperm are Ys and Xs. xx=girl xy=boy. If only tissue of Mary were replicated then wouldn't she have birthed a daughter? But, it didn't happen this way. Why? Caz we aren't as smart as we think we are? Caz with God all things are possible?
What is "the result?"
Jesus! :')
Well, for one, if something like Jesus not being related to Mary at all is believed, it goes a long way towards explaing the standoffishness many Protestants have towards Mary. If she was just a womb-for-hire and a nanny, there is no need for her to be anything special.
Either way works for me. Mary still did something very special. Whether God made His body from Mary and placed His spirit there or made a different body as He did with Adam, or accomplished this miracle in any other way, doesn't make any difference to me. His will suits me just fine :')
When did Mary say she was sinful?
The Bible makes no assertion that Mary was excluded from that group.
Excuse me if I don't agree with your notions of what the "Bible" asserts.
SD
IOW, your question has no validity.
First, thanks for your earlier comments about my post on prayer. Sorry, but I had to run errands this morning and just got home so I didn't see it till now.
Now, to this issue. I don't think this does make my question invalid at all. I think you might interpret it that way since I think you read into my comment that I was using Mexico because its Catholic. In fact, I think the cases you cite of Ireland and Italy are good examples of what I am saying.
My point is having access to the Truth, whether that Truth be the Bible or Church Teaching based on the Bible or whatever, is not sufficient. One must also have the desire to practice that truth. Italy (and we've discussed Ireland, before, and I'm still not convinced it has a significantly low birth rate vis-a-vis other European countries) is a prime example of this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but abortion is legal in Italy, isn't it? Thus, even though Italy is supposed to be a Catholic country fully steeped in the dogmas of the Truth, its apparent said Truth has little impact on society, today.
Nobody is making the argument that Jesus is a woman. Obviously God, as author of life, has control over DNA. What is being said is that her chromosones were used to make Jesus' humanity. Not that she was cloned into Jesus, but that she was the only human being who was related to Him.
Either God took her chromosones and used them to make a zygote Jesus, or God took her chromosones and used them to make a "Mary sperm" or something else happened.
The point is that Mary is the mother of Jesus. Totally. In all respects. And that He has no human father, biologically.
SD
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