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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)
Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

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TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: CindyDawg
I should have given you this one also.

Mk 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

No one saw the resurrection, and it's not recorded when it took place, but when the sun came up Sunday morning, He had been long gone.

JH :-)

47,461 posted on 04/20/2003 3:23:44 PM PDT by JHavard (You don't know what you don't know)
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To: JHavard
Very interesting. Had to be sometime around dusk Sat assuming their days didn't change at midnight like ours.
47,462 posted on 04/20/2003 3:35:45 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: All
Sad news about my friend's buddy (Eric Das) in Iraq. Here it is directly from the email I received ...

Eric did not eject from the plane.  His remains were identified earlier this week.  He was 30 years old.  Please pray for his parents and his 2 sisters.  His wife Nikki is with the family now.  Please also pray for her.   

Thank the Lord that Eric was a strong Christian and is in Heaven with his Lord and Savior.   

Even though we know that war can be fatal we are in shock...but he was doing what he loved to do and was with his wife.

FYI ... his wife was also in Iraq during this war.

Thank you all for your prayers.

47,463 posted on 04/20/2003 3:58:51 PM PDT by al_c
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To: al_c
I'm very sorry Al. My prayers are with his family and friends.
47,464 posted on 04/20/2003 4:06:08 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg
Very interesting. Had to be sometime around dusk Sat assuming their days didn't change at midnight like ours.

Cindy, don't feel obligated to read or comment on this post, I just wanted to refresh in my mind some of the things I had learned years ago, and I used your post to practice on.

Your right, another thing, they had two different ways of keeping time back then.

One was called a solar day, and the other was civil time.

The Jews observed their holy days and Sabbaths by the setting of the sun, but it was not accurate enough for keeping civil and legal time daily, since every day the sun sets and rises earlier or later.

They had all apparently agreed on a standard time to call evening, say 6PM.

Every day of the week they called 6PM evening when it came to working or hiring labor, but on holy days, the went by the actual sunset.

The evening Jesus was placed in the tomb was a Jewish high holy day sabbath, so they used the sunset to tell them when they had to be finished with the body.

The problem is, when scripture says Lk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. They were being rushed to finish up and get home before the Sabbath, but we don't know which time they were following, the civil time, or the solar setting of the sun.

It could have vaeried from minutes to a half an hour or more between them, or both evenings could have been almost identical that day.

The reason I mention this, is because no one can know the exact minute Jesus was placed in the heart of the earth.

If the scripture is rekonong time, by the civil clock, then it was by that time we are told when He was first put on the cross, and what time he died, and in that case He was buried under civil time.

If he was buried at 6PM civil time, the Jewish Sabbath may not have began for up to a half an hour afterwards.

All this is to show you there is no way for us to know the exact time, only that it was still the Sabbath either way, when he was placed into the Sepulchre, so it would have had to be the Sabbath when He rose.

JH :-)

47,465 posted on 04/20/2003 4:37:33 PM PDT by JHavard (You don't know what you don't know)
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To: OLD REGGIE
And I haven't forgotten that you have abrogated to yourself to be the sole interpreter of Scripture. No pope would be so bold.
47,466 posted on 04/20/2003 4:54:17 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: OLD REGGIE
What dp you think the first Bibles were written in, English?
47,467 posted on 04/20/2003 4:54:36 PM PDT by tHe AnTiLiB (Pray in reparation for the sins of the world, like Jesus did.)
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Not every person saved is a saint, I won't explain it, but it takes the process of canonization. There was no heaven until Christ died. No salvation, but a hell; so therefore a "limbo" (just a name).
47,468 posted on 04/20/2003 4:57:29 PM PDT by tHe AnTiLiB (Pray in reparation for the sins of the world, like Jesus did.)
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To: CindyDawg
Ofcourse the majority of prayer should be in adoration, and pleading for forgiveness to God the Father. But more people praying for you is always a plus.
47,469 posted on 04/20/2003 4:59:40 PM PDT by tHe AnTiLiB (Pray in reparation for the sins of the world, like Jesus did.)
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To: tHe AnTiLiB
Ofcourse the majority of prayer should be in adoration, and pleading for forgiveness to God the Father. But more people praying for you is always a plus

Praying for you is one thing. Asking the dead to speak to Jesus for you is another. Don't you ever just talk to Him?

47,470 posted on 04/20/2003 5:04:53 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg
You don't become a hit and miss nomad looking for a Church. You pray for and work with the one you're in. You shouldn't just leave because your minister/priest says something you don't agree with. That's what makes 30,000 Protestant denominations.
47,471 posted on 04/20/2003 5:06:37 PM PDT by tHe AnTiLiB (Pray in reparation for the sins of the world, like Jesus did.)
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To: tHe AnTiLiB
Don't take this the wrong way, but do you have a Bible? We keep asking for scripture but you don't provide it.
47,472 posted on 04/20/2003 5:06:39 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: tHe AnTiLiB
You don't become a hit and miss nomad looking for a Church. You pray for and work with the one you're in. You shouldn't just leave because your minister/priest says something you don't agree with. That's what makes 30,000 Protestant denominations

You do if your church leader is not staying with the word of God. But you are right. Listen to what your priest says. Check to make sure that what he preaches is backed up by scripture. Ask questions, pray, and try to make it work. If none of the above results in changing , then, get out. Go somewhere else.

47,473 posted on 04/20/2003 5:12:40 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg
First, my mom was a convert from Presbyterian to Catholicism, so she couldn't really teach me any theology. But my father still leads the anti-sexeducation in Catholic schools movement, so I guess he taught me Catholic theology using the Bible. Second, if God thought the same way you do, the Catholic Church would be much smaller than what it is now. Lastly, you are using the same remark that atheists use; "what's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular."
47,474 posted on 04/20/2003 5:16:09 PM PDT by tHe AnTiLiB (Pray in reparation for the sins of the world, like Jesus did.)
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To: tHe AnTiLiB
First, my mom was a convert from Presbyterian to Catholicism, so she couldn't really teach me any theology. But my father still leads the anti-sexeducation in Catholic schools movement, so I guess he taught me Catholic theology using the Bible. Second, if God thought the same way you do, the Catholic Church would be much smaller than what it is now. Lastly, you are using the same remark that atheists use; "what's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular

Been called a lot of bad names before but never an atheist. You guys believe this? lol. Now, answer the question. I know your dad has one, but do you own a Bible or not? It's not a put down. It's just that if you don't have one one, you will need to get one to keep up here :').

47,475 posted on 04/20/2003 5:23:31 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: JHavard
I think you are taking me the wrong way. I'm just saying that there are more Catholics than fundamentalists. So let's just say (not correct figures) that for every 100 Catholics there are 10 fundamentalist Protestants, again, just saying; then since they all believe in Jesus Christ, then it is only by pure numbers that there are more Catholic Christians. I'm not saying that out of 10 Catholics 9 are true believers in Christ and Fund. Prot. 3 out of 10.
47,476 posted on 04/20/2003 5:23:50 PM PDT by tHe AnTiLiB (Pray in reparation for the sins of the world, like Jesus did.)
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To: OLD REGGIE
...arrogated.....
47,477 posted on 04/20/2003 5:35:51 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: JHavard
We do not know "when" he rose from the dead, but the tomb was found empty on the first day of the week. Sunday is, therefore, the day his disciples knew that he was no longer where they laid him, that he had risen. We celebate that Good News.
47,478 posted on 04/20/2003 5:40:13 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: CindyDawg; tHe AnTiLiB
"Don't you ever just talk to Him?"

Sorry for butting into your conversation, but this is a question Protestants often ask, but usually the discussion is on matters of theology and, so, an answer is rarely forth coming.

This is a shame, I believe. First, because I believe Protestants are honestly often concerned we Catholics don't allow ourselves to 'just talk' to Jesus. And, second, because I truly don't believe they realize just how insulting the question can sound. Perhaps the angst on both sides could be cleared up if we went into a little more detail about our prayer lives. We may find there is much less seperating us than we think.

Thus, with this said, I'd like to answer Cindy's question.

Yes, Cindy, quite frequently I do just talk to Jesus. First, I regularly begin my day with a morning offering. As soon as I arise I say, "Oh my Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer you this day my prayers, my works my joys and my sufferings. I offer them in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass throughout the world, in raparations for my sins, for the intentions of the Holy Father, and most particularly for the intentions of your Most Sacred Heart." Undoubtedly, many Protestants would have problems with some of the theology which underlies this prayer. However, please note it is directed solely to Jesus. For me, it is a roundabout way of saying, "Unto thee, O Lord, I lift up my soul."(Psalm 25, I believe.)

At each meal, I offer a blessing before and a word of thanksgiving afterward. Though, in all fairness, these are directed more to our heavenly Father.

At least twice during the day, before Mass and at three o'clock when I like to spend ten of fifteen minutes with Scripture (o.k.,o.k., mainly with the Psalms, call me weak) I recite the Anima Christi which goes: "Soul of Christ, Sacntify Me; Body of Christ, Save Me; Blood of Christ, inebriate me; Water from the Side of Christ, Wash Me; Passion of Christ, Strengthen me; Oh good Jesus, hear me; Within thy five wounds hide me. Suffer me never to be seperated from thee. From the evil One, protect Me. And at the hour of my death call me, and bid me to come unto thee. So that with all thy angels and saints, I may praise thee, forever and ever. Amen."

Now, at about this point, you're about ready to say something like, "well, yeah, but that's just reciting repetitious prayers. Don't ya ever just talk to Him?"

Try to understand, I find these practices help lift my soul to Him, they quiet me, reminding me I'm in God's presence. Then, I am ready to lay my particular cares and concerns before Him.

I have similar prayers I recite after Mass each morning and I always like to stay afterwords for at least a few minutes to savor the experience of the grace which comes from the Eucharist and spend some time with Him.

Now, I wish I could say every time I do this I experience His presence; that I connect with Him. Some times I do, and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'm just to distracted. Or other times I experience a bit of dryness, the sort of dryness in prayer virtually every Christian who takes their prayer life seriously probably often experiences and about which virtually every author on prayer (both Protestant and Catholic) I've read has written.

Then, there is my evening prayer. I think back on the days events and think of the ways I may have failed Him. But I also think of the things which, through His grace, I did well. I express sorrow for my failings (we call this an Act of Contrition) and I thank Him for His Grace. After this, I'll often do an Angelus (you wouldn't like it, it's chocked full of Hail Marys' -) and ask St. Joseph, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Francis de Sales, and St. Agatha to pray for me. Also, often I will conclude with either an Our Father or a Prayer to the Holy Spirit.

Now then, this is just my daily prayer life. I also thouroughly enjoy a monthly Holy Hour, spent in Adoration of the Eucharist. We believe the Eucharist substantially contains the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. Hence, this hour a month is, for me, an hour spent virtually in his Substantial Presence.

I've already typed a great deal, and it seems I still haven't scratched the surface in expressing just how much I not only talk to Him, but love talking to Him. About all I can say is that, while I fall far short of my goal, my goal is to 'pray without ceasing.' Though, as I say, I often fall way too short.

47,479 posted on 04/20/2003 5:52:16 PM PDT by AlguyA (I'm giving up tag lines for Lent.)
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To: AlguyA; tHe AnTiLiB
No problem. It's an open forum and we are always answering others posts. Keeps things interesting, buttttttttt, since you are speaking for theantilib now, does he/she own a Bible? :')
47,480 posted on 04/20/2003 6:16:59 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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