The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I thought you liked the snow:)

Becky

[Quester]

Cindy, it sounds like your Pastor relies upon the ... "I'm right ... you're wrong ... there's nothing to discuss" ... method of persuasion.

That doesn't usually go over too well with men.

As I'm sure you are, I would be earnestly asking for God's direction regarding this matter.

[malakhi]

I thought you liked the snow:)

For everything there is a season ... and April ain't the time for snow! It was warmer in January than it has been so far this month.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Sheesh...some people just can't be happy:)

Becky

[JHavard]

I don't read that passage as referring to one single prophet, because God raised up many true prophets after Moses. Based upon what I believe about Jesus, I think that he was a true prophet.

Good morning malakhi. If you or other Jews consider Jesus a true prophet, then He was the first one since what, around 500BC?

Wouldn't this in it's self be significant to the Jews? What would the consensus of the Jews be, regarding his message and what the purpose was in His coming when He did?

JH

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I depressed because last week it was up in the80's here and now it has dropped down to the high's in the upper 50's to lower 60's:)

Becky

[SoothingDave]

I come down on "divinely inspired" rather than "divinely dictated".

OK. Not I. I may "allegorize" the Creation accounts, but the giving of the Law I take literally. I think you have to.

If there was no literal giving of the Law, then there was no literal "blood throwing" acceptance of the Covenant at Sinai, right?

As far as the miracle accounts, I first and foremost read them literally, but I am also aware of the more figurative/mystical interpretations of the same passages. I think it is a "both/and" rather than an "either/or".

Yes, we can read them both as history and as events that tell of a deeper meaning. But, at the end of the day, we have to decide whether God really acted, or if this "God" is just a figment of our collective human experience.

If God did not create the world (in some manner), if God did not bring His people out of Egypt, if God did not deliver unto them the Law, then of what use is this religion? Your Passover is a commemeration of an event that never happened?

If Jesus did not die and rise again, Christianity is pointless.

SD

[SoothingDave]

We are expecting another 2-5 inches of snow starting sometime today through tonight. I'm hoping it goes to the south of us; we still have a few inches on the ground from last week's snowfall. :o(

There was supposed to be 3 or so inches of snow north of the city today, after rain last night turned into sleet, then snow. It just seemed to be regular rain here this morning. Those of us south and east of the city got a lot of weather this year. It's the North's turn.

SD

[malakhi]

Sheesh...some people just can't be happy:)

Oh, I'm happy! Just wishing I could start doing some work in my garden.

[CindyDawg]

Yeah. I've decide to go back Wed. night and see what happens. I really didn't have a problem with him just stoping and introducing himself. The old preacher used to do it sometimes. They would just talk outside. Occasionally Eddie invited him in. This man is new and a former missionary (if that means anything). Maybe God sent him. Maybe God told him to be that agressive, maybe he didn't. Time will tell. Funny thing is that after I decided to go I couldn't find the babys shoes, I couldn't find my purse, the car seat not set up, low on gas etc. Maybe that should tell me something (besides that I need to be more organized lol.)

[Quester]

I come down on "divinely inspired" rather than "divinely dictated".

I tend to favor this approach, as well.

As far as the miracle accounts, I first and foremost read them literally, but I am also aware of the more figurative/mystical interpretations of the same passages. I think it is a "both/and" rather than an "either/or".

If I understand what you're saying here ... this does no injury to your belief in the literalness of the Bible (Old & New Testament) miracles ... yes ?

For instance, could it not be true that JESUS is the Son of God, the eternally existent Second Person of the Godhead ... and ... a Tzaddik ?

[al_c]

Ha ha! No, Southwestern Bell Corporation.

[Quester]

Just wishing I could start doing some work in my garden.

I'm with you here. That and see some of the results of last year's work.

[malakhi]

Good morning malakhi. If you or other Jews consider Jesus a true prophet, then He was the first one since what, around 500BC?

Well, Steven asked my opinion. I expect most Jews would disagree with me. But then, I've looked into it more than most Jews have, too. I think Jesus would get more attention from Jews if more of them saw the authentically Jewish Jesus rather than the Pauline Jesus. The victory of hellenistic Christianity over Nazarene Judaism transformed the way Jews looked at the Jesus movement, and therefore at Jesus himself.

[nate4one]

Going to church doesn't save you and I agree that even though the Bible only says two or more gathered in his name, I think family attendance of church important. My husband and I used to fight about this all the time. I was making his life miserable.

Romans 14.
You just admitted that going to church does not save. You may want to pray and ask God to reveal who is the meat and who is the vegetable eater in the house.
Some NEED the legalism of certain practices because without it they stumble. Others who know it is not a requirement are happy with their freedom. He needs to realize he may be making you stumble. You need to realize the freedom you have and that he enjoys.

As far as it not being about money, that may be true on SOME LEVEL, but ultimately impossible. His decision to be a full time pastor for wages, for life support, binds him to his NEED for "sheep." He may feel the conviction that your husband should attend church, but if attendance doesn't save, and your husband can "gather together" in other means, why is he bugging?

Nate

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Cindy

Two things.

One, IMO, you should not play the "see what happens" game. The ball is in your court. Get your thought organized, write them down if you have too. When you are ready, ask him for a few minutes, then talk to him.

I'm sure since he was asked to leave he knows he offended, but he may be playing the "see what happens" game also. If you keep going but say nothing, he is very liable to think you approve of what he did.

I think it is time to find out what kind of person this man is. Press him the way he pressed your husband. But also, let your husband know that you still think he should go. If he lets SOMEONE keep him from worshipping God he will never get there. People are always going to disappoint, we cannot let that get in the way of what God wants us to do.

Two: IMO, If God didn't want you to continue at this church you would KNOW. There would be none of the maybe this means something. IMO:) (I have alot of IMO's don't I:), God has given you an opprotunity to help your preacher become a better communictor with his flock, no maybe to it.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Nate, The scripture clearly indicates that 1. The members of the church are suppose to support their pastors. and 2. We are not to judge the motives of others hearts.

To make the statement that pastors at least on some level are all thinking of their salaries is not right.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You may have told us, but I don't remember. What reasons does your husband give for not wanting to go to church?

Becky

[CindyDawg]

That doesn't usually go over too well with men.

You've got that right!!!!

[OLD REGGIE]

I depressed because last week it was up in the80's here and now it has dropped down to the high's in the upper 50's to lower 60's:)

It was in the low 40's this morning, the ice went out of my pond, and the ducks came back.

I got so excited by the return of summer I stripped naked and went for a swim.

The ducks panicked and flew away. My neighbors panicked and called the police.

The police came, giggled, wrapped a blanket around me, and put me back in the house. They told me I should at least wear a pair of undershorts in the future. Spoilsports!