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Why Christians Don't Understand Non-Christians
ArGee | 1/3/01 | ArGee

Posted on 01/03/2002 11:19:13 AM PST by ArGee

A very rich man decided that he wanted to show kindness to the people of the fair city where he lived. Since he was very rich indeed, he decided to throw a banquet for the entire city. He rented the largest sports arena in the city and began his plans. He planned for huge amounts of the best food possible, making allowances for every religious and medical diet. He advertised the banquet in every possible manner - television, radio, billboard, door-to-door canvassing. Considering that there might be some who could not travel, he arranged for free bus transportation to and from the event, and some special-needs vehicles for all who could not ride busses. He even scheduled the banquet to run for 24 hours a day for several days so that everyone could be sure of being served.

He planned long and hard and finally the big day came. The rich man ate quickly and then went about wishing all his guests well and personally making sure that all had every need met. After a while he went outside to tour the grounds and talk with those who had not yet gone in, and those who had already left. Everyone was happy. Many were profusely thankful. It was a glorious occasion.

At one point the rich man noticed a group of people sitting outside a locked door with most unpleasant looks on their faces. Sensing they were not happy, he went over to them. He did not introduce himself but simply asked them if he could be of service.

"We want to go in through this door," one of them replied.

The rich man explained to them that the hall was arranged to feed a large number of people as quickly and effortlessly as possible. This required order inside, and the entrances and exits had been carefully planned to be as efficient as possible. He then offered to go call one of the golf carts that were avaialbe to help people who could not walk far to take them to the entrance. But the man replied, "We do not want to go in the entrance. We want to go in this door. We don't understand why we can't go in any door we wish. We think the man who set this banquet up is mean and hateful for insisting we go in through the entrance. He has tried to bill himself as a very kind man by offering this banquet, but he is not kind at all if he will not indulge us and let us go through this door.

The rich man was distressed at these words, but still attempted to please these people. He tried once more to explain to them what was behind this particular door, and how if they went in this door they would disrupt the meal service being offered inside. He offered to drive them himself, not only to the door, but inside the hall to their tables if they would only go through the entrance to enjoy the meal. Again the man said, "No, but only a hateful man would keep us from going through the door of our choosing. And we will sit here and tell anyone who will listen to us what an awful man he is until he lets us in."

At that the rich man was enraged and he shouted, "Enough." Then he called a police officer to have them thrown off of the property and ordered that they not be allowed to return until the banquet was over and all the scraps had been hauled away. Then, mourning for their loss, he turned to visit with other guests.


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To: ArGee
That is my point, we are all talking about something that is completely unsubstantiated. To discuss something using a reference that not all believe is valid, is futile.
761 posted on 01/04/2002 1:00:37 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: ArGee
So, if it agrees with the right people, it's valid, if not, it's invalid.
762 posted on 01/04/2002 1:02:10 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: discostu
I was never filled with joy in the faith, it was never a comfortable fit.

I think it is impossible to be filled with joy in the faith. I think it is only possible to be filled with joy in G-d.

I don't know what other religions you have studied. I have studied many, and I know of no other that offer a relationship with their god. Many don't offer even the ability to communicate with their god. Some offer the ability to appease their god when life is going badly, but there are no guarantees. Maybe you are aware of some that I am not aware of.

But if they all look equally valid to you, the I will offer you one other place to look. You will have to travel far to find it and you may not be sure you have found it when you get there.

It's a tomb that was full but is now empty.

Shalom.

763 posted on 01/04/2002 1:03:28 PM PST by ArGee
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To: stuartcr
Actually, I am just presenting a conundrum found in the Bible. The Bible does talk about seeking the Lord. (For example, "They that come unto God must first believe that He is and is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.").

And Luke 13 describes the properly diligent seeking as an agonizing thing. Jeremiah reveals that nothing else even counts as seeking. We must have a hungering and thirsting after righteousness (Matthew's Beatitudes).

So, the seeking is very serious.

But Paul drops a logical bombshell when he says that NO ONE SEEKS THE LORD.

And the only solution is the Calvinistic one. It is the same thing as the Lord was saying in John 6:44.

764 posted on 01/04/2002 1:04:22 PM PST by the_doc
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To: MassExodus
Sure you do, SIN is a mighty force.

It sure is. Yet G-d overcame that force in my life. Am I special or something? Did not G-d overcome that force in the life of all that they might also come to the table?

Shalom.

765 posted on 01/04/2002 1:06:20 PM PST by ArGee
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To: stuartcr
The problem is that while many believe they know who is/isn't there, no one here on earth REALLY knows who is in or who is out, or if there even is a banquet. That is, until you die.

I know I am at the banquet. The food is good. The wine is excellent. The fellowship is divine.

Come to the table.

Shalom.

766 posted on 01/04/2002 1:12:03 PM PST by ArGee
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To: the_doc
Not knowing the bible, I will take your word for it. It's just another thing that I don't understand, seeking. Can't see where it's necessary, God is everywhere. Can't prove it though, and don't even want to, I just believe. Makes life a lot easier.
767 posted on 01/04/2002 1:12:42 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
I agree that all people do both good and bad regardless of beliefs, but from what I have seen in the world people are generally bad, and many times even when they do "good" things it is for selfish reasons, like to make themselves look good, or make themselves feel good even.
768 posted on 01/04/2002 1:13:15 PM PST by nattyman
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To: stuartcr
Yes, of course all religions are man-made. They have human members, are run by humans, are written about by humans, etc. What else could they be?

I would give you answer and quote a source that is greater than I, but you have already discounted my source. Therefore, I will ask you what your source is for your statement instead.

Shalom.

769 posted on 01/04/2002 1:13:18 PM PST by ArGee
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To: ArGee
I'm very sorry, and I don't mean to be rude, but the more you say that, the less credible it sounds.
770 posted on 01/04/2002 1:14:23 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: nattyman
You need a more positive outlook. The goods far outweigh the bads in this world. We are not all satanically depraved from birth as some would lead you to believe.
771 posted on 01/04/2002 1:17:12 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: All
Well, I've read 500. This will be 770 or higher. There are miles to go, but I have a family to go home to, so I will have to part company for a while.

Please, don't make the mistake of thinking that I am not willing to answer. I will answer everything if G-d will allow. In the mean time I will be praying.

I never expected this thread to take off the way it has. Who can understand the ways of G-d. But I started it and I will do whatever I can to finish it. Still, it is G-d's to finish, not mine. I will be faithful as He allows, but He will accomplish what He will.

I love you all.

Shalom.

772 posted on 01/04/2002 1:17:15 PM PST by ArGee
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To: ArGee
I know I am at the banquet. The food is good. The wine is excellent. The fellowship is divine.

If you're *really* drinking wine i.e. let's say we're not talking about imagery/parable/symbolism, etc, aren't you sinning?

773 posted on 01/04/2002 1:17:38 PM PST by gdani
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To: ArGee
Sorry hos but I've read up on Roman history and know how crucifixions were supposed to be done. I've also learned that the fellow in charge of Jeruselem during the time of Christ was well known to be corrupt. The the VAST quantity of differences between how the Gnostic Gospels say Christ was crucified and how Roman law dictated the deed be done (which matches histories of the region at the time showing how they were done around Jeruselem) I'm not entirely convinced that the fellow put in the tomb was dead. And even if he was there's no form of proof that he rose up, could just have had his body stolen by nut jobs.
774 posted on 01/04/2002 1:19:56 PM PST by discostu
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To: ArGee
I realize your source would of course be the bible, but all this is here on earth, how could it not be man-made? It was mentioned earlier that the bible was written by 40 men. They were humans, subject to flus, bad dreams, puppies, anything that is here on earth. Do you think they were in a trance or something when they wrote?
775 posted on 01/04/2002 1:21:09 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: ArGee
Actually, I think you did realize that this thread would take off like this. You've done a commendable job keeping it going.
776 posted on 01/04/2002 1:23:22 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
I have asked many questions and questioned my faith often. It would not be healthy to do otherwise. I have seen proof but it is not the proof that you are probably looking for. I have seen the proof in my changed life, and the changed life of my wife. I have seen the proof in the lives of many of my friends who lived in chains of drugs, alchohol, sex, lying, etc, and now have been set free. I have seen the proof in the lives of people I have met in Africa who have left the faith of their families that inprisoned them to fear of spirits, but now they have no fear because they know that their God overcomes these spirits. I have seen the proof in lives of people who have left behind the riches they had here in the U.S. to go and serve the desperately poor in 3rd world nations.

We can not expect to see the proof of spiritual matters in physical things or with our physical eyes.

777 posted on 01/04/2002 1:23:57 PM PST by nattyman
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To: nattyman
I've not questioned my faith, and I have no need for proof of God. I seek to understand why people think and believe the way they do.
778 posted on 01/04/2002 1:26:47 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: OWK
I have refused to accept the existence of God, and therefore have no choice but to make my own set.

Maybe some day, you'll read this statement of yours and be able to see all the reasoning errors it reveals. I count three.

779 posted on 01/04/2002 1:27:42 PM PST by savedbygrace
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To: ArGee
I'd be interested in hearing your views on Matthew 7:14.

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

To me, this implies that there is only one gate, not several. And "find" implies that people have to "search" or at least put forth some effort on their own to get to the gate.

The locked gate part doesn't make much sense to me. The rich man can set the rules for entrance to his own party. Why would he provide alternate gates which lead nowhere? Seems deceptive to me to give people the impression that they can get into the banquet by means other than the prescribed way.

If there are other gates, they may lead to other banquets. Who's to say that the rich man's is the only party in town?

Perhaps one gate (to another building) is labeled "Nirvana" and to a third building's gate "72 virgins". And, as Matthew (7:13) puts it, the "broad" (and perhaps most attractive-looking) gate leads to destruction, and "many go in thereat".

Since nobody knows what is really going on behind any of the gates until they get there, they must rely on the hearsay of the people in the street, who have never been inside any of the gates themselves.

Therefore, the rich man himself must communicate fairly to the people on the street (over the voices of the crowd) that his is the best banquet to attend.

780 posted on 01/04/2002 1:28:37 PM PST by wai-ming
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