Posted on 01/03/2002 11:19:13 AM PST by ArGee
A very rich man decided that he wanted to show kindness to the people of the fair city where he lived. Since he was very rich indeed, he decided to throw a banquet for the entire city. He rented the largest sports arena in the city and began his plans. He planned for huge amounts of the best food possible, making allowances for every religious and medical diet. He advertised the banquet in every possible manner - television, radio, billboard, door-to-door canvassing. Considering that there might be some who could not travel, he arranged for free bus transportation to and from the event, and some special-needs vehicles for all who could not ride busses. He even scheduled the banquet to run for 24 hours a day for several days so that everyone could be sure of being served.
He planned long and hard and finally the big day came. The rich man ate quickly and then went about wishing all his guests well and personally making sure that all had every need met. After a while he went outside to tour the grounds and talk with those who had not yet gone in, and those who had already left. Everyone was happy. Many were profusely thankful. It was a glorious occasion.
At one point the rich man noticed a group of people sitting outside a locked door with most unpleasant looks on their faces. Sensing they were not happy, he went over to them. He did not introduce himself but simply asked them if he could be of service.
"We want to go in through this door," one of them replied.
The rich man explained to them that the hall was arranged to feed a large number of people as quickly and effortlessly as possible. This required order inside, and the entrances and exits had been carefully planned to be as efficient as possible. He then offered to go call one of the golf carts that were avaialbe to help people who could not walk far to take them to the entrance. But the man replied, "We do not want to go in the entrance. We want to go in this door. We don't understand why we can't go in any door we wish. We think the man who set this banquet up is mean and hateful for insisting we go in through the entrance. He has tried to bill himself as a very kind man by offering this banquet, but he is not kind at all if he will not indulge us and let us go through this door.
The rich man was distressed at these words, but still attempted to please these people. He tried once more to explain to them what was behind this particular door, and how if they went in this door they would disrupt the meal service being offered inside. He offered to drive them himself, not only to the door, but inside the hall to their tables if they would only go through the entrance to enjoy the meal. Again the man said, "No, but only a hateful man would keep us from going through the door of our choosing. And we will sit here and tell anyone who will listen to us what an awful man he is until he lets us in."
At that the rich man was enraged and he shouted, "Enough." Then he called a police officer to have them thrown off of the property and ordered that they not be allowed to return until the banquet was over and all the scraps had been hauled away. Then, mourning for their loss, he turned to visit with other guests.
I don't deny that they knew that they should not eat from that tree, I mean God himself told them not to do that but since they had not yet eaten from the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" they could not know that it was evil to disobey. Furthermore he told Adam that he would die if he ate from that tree, but what the heck is death? How do you explain that to Adam before the fall? As far as I know death was only an issue after they were thrown out of paradise. How could they know what death is or even whether it was good or bad?
You cannot compare a 3 year old, who was born with a depraved and sinful nature, with Adam. Adam breathed in his first breath to behold the glory of God. He was fully matured in reasoning and posessed every single thing he needed to correctly choose from that moment.
Why not? In this aspect Adam and Eve were at least as inexperienced as a 3 year old. A toddler does not know that it is often bad not to follow the advice of your parents. They have to learn that first. The same with A&E: they did not know that disobeying God is bad. There was no way to learn that because they were allowed to do whatever they wanted except of course to eat from that particular tree. So they had not much opportunity to learn this lesson.
Oh, even though Eve ate the apple first, it is beause of Adam that sin came into the world. Ponder that!
Humm... Yeah, whatever you say.
As God is not only Almighty, but also all knowing, separating the end from the beginning and knowing all detail of every single person before a man's days were ordained, having fully fashioned all men and their days before there was a single one of them; why did God not simply create Adam differently?
I only can guess that God wanted this to happen. I mean why make an individual that can not discern between good and evil and therefore cannot know that it is bad not to follow an order and then place a tree (he is not allowed to eat from) in the garden that is easily accessible to him? IMO that's a really dirty trick.
Sounds just like what I heard from my old Episcopal church. If you don't mind, do you claim to be saved and (if so) what kind of church do you attend?
I don't claim to be saved (whatever that may be) and I don't attend any church. Y'know I'm one of those darn infidels ;->
You are right that the analogy is flawed.
There is only one door.
But it is open to all and G-d Himself will take you through it.
I just didn't think the story would be as good if I said the people were demanding the rich man have a hole punched through the wall.
Shalom.
Such being the case, why do so few christians follow these demands?
FEW? Just WHERE do you get your percentages??
Do you want them to TOLERATE sin? Forgive REBELLIOUSNESS?
Don't hold your breath!
I get the impression you've been talking to the wrong believers, if you've been talking to believers at all.
Because of sin, you are separated from G-d. By the sacrifice of Jesus your relationship with G-d is restored. I'm not asking you to avoid eternal torment, I'm offering you a chance to know a more beautiful love relationship than you have ever imagined because the G-d you enter into a relationship with is more beautiful than you have ever imagined.. Not some future relationship, but a relationship you can be a part of now. It starts today and goes on for eternity, getting better as it grows.
If there is an eternal torment, it is realizing that this relationship could have been yours, but you have rejected it.
Is a relationship like that something you would want?
Shalom.
In 1990 it did worse than that.
Oops. This is a religious discussion. My mistake. Sorry.
;)
Shalom.
Not to nitpick, but Judaism believes what you said also. It's just that Christianity poses the answer to Judaism's self-evident question, "Now what do we do?"
Shalom.
Hence the comment.
It's my story and I made it up so the question is mine.
But the story is just that, a story. It is not a parable and it is not meant to be a systematic theology.
There is only one door. Everyone else has painted a door on the wall and is demanding that the rich man punch a hole to accomodate their door. Maybe I should have told it that way in the first place, but I didn't think of it.
I will certainly remember it, though.
Shalom.
Nonsense, nobody showed. If you know for a fact your alleged god showed, present the independently verifiable evidence.
God.
If it wasn't for God's little side-bet with the devil, poor old Job would have been left alone.
Baloney! Trot out the one and let it speak for itself. Nobody ever went to heaven and/or hell and told me about it. All I have are second, third, and fourth hand accounts, inadmissable evidence in any court.
This of course, was my point in a nutshell.
A loving benevolent omnipotent God, could not rationally be anything like the descriptions of him in the Old Testament.
In the first place, G-d knocks. You don't knock. But you can seek. You may need a guide, but if you open your heart to His knock then He will guide you.
I don't know you so I can't know your experience. In my experience everyone who answers as you do intentionally knocked on the wrong door so they could claim it was G-d's fault. He really isn't that hard to find. After all, I found Him and I'm not at all special.
Trot him/her/it out.
I'm not challenging your devotion to Christ, your sincerity, or even the validity of your point. I'm just not sure this is the place for a doctoral thesis on doctrinal details.
But, it's a free thread. That's a request from me, not a demand.
Shalom.
Occam's Razor directly disputes your assertion here. You add complexity to the issue by adding a designer. There is zero evidece of intelligent design.
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