Forgiveness: The Very Essence of Our Faith

New Life Ministries ^ | September 10, 2019 | Steve Aterburn

[metmom]

If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, you Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:14-15

Joseph was the pride and joy of his father. Though Jacob had ten other sons, he favored Joseph, the one born to him in his old age. Jacob never bothered to hide his special feelings—not even from his other sons. In fact, he expressed his favoritism blatantly and visibly by having an expensive coat made especially for Joseph.

This did not go unnoticed by the older brothers, and they began to resent their spoiled young sibling. Joseph, who was either oblivious to their resentment or insensitive to it, made it worse by bragging to his brothers about his dreams that he would one day rule over them. In one dream, his brothers' sheaves of grain bowed down to his. In another dream, the sun, moon, and eleven stars bowed down to him.

Eventually, Joseph's vivid dreams and their father's favoritism so infuriated the brothers that they plotted Joseph's death. While trying to decide the best way to accomplish it, they spotted a caravan of spice traders on the way to Egypt. Instead of killing Joseph, they decided to sell him as a slave. They said good riddance to their dreaming brother and made up a story to tell their father about his favorite son's tragic fate.

[ebb tide]

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John also wrote John 20:23. I noticed that you skipped that one, as always.

[ebb tide]

By one man sin came into the world....

What about it? What does that have to do with the forgiveness of sins?

[Big Red Badger]

Thanks for asking

[ebb tide]

Find penance in the Bible. One verse. And don't come back with repentance. We both know that is different.

See Post #35.

I found "penance" 66 times in the Bible.

As far as "repentance", see Post #36.

You're right on only one thing: there is difference between the two.

[Z28.310]

There is a very real thing which happens, where people ask questions, not for honest answers, but to merely justify their behavior. I’ve seen it untold times during biblical counseling.

But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Not saying anyone specific here is doing this, but it happens more often than it is noticed.

[ealgeone]

66 verses incorrectly rendered by the Douay-Rheims. Bad translation...bad theology.

[ebb tide]

 

"And if they be converted in their heart in the land to which they were led captive, and do penance, and pray to thee in the land of their captivity, saying: We have sinned, we have done wickedly, we have dealt unjustly: [2 Paralipomenon (2 Chronicles) 6:37]
7	"And my people, upon whom my name is called, being converted, shall make supplication to me, and seek out my face, and do penance for their most wicked ways: then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sins and will heal their land. [2 Paralipomenon (2 Chronicles) 7:14] See tagline

[ealgeone]

12Then the LORD appeared to Solomon at night and said to him, “I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for Myself as a house of sacrifice. 13“If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, 14and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:12-14 NASB 95

*****

12Then the LORD appeared to Solomon at night and said to him, “I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for Myself as a house of sacrifice. 13“If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, 14and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. New Catholic Bible

*****

14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. RSVCE

*****

14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, pray, seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. NRSVCE

*****

Face it ebb.....you're using a translation that is rendering your position as invalid.

[ebb tide]

I’ll take St. Jerome over any prot or post VC II “bible”.

[ebb tide]

From the prot KJV "bible":

Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John Chapter 20.

See tagline.

[metmom]

Not in do many words. But isn’t forgiveness nowadays being used to justify excusing criminality in a lawless culture?

It is, no doubt.

However, it is not unscriptural for civil or legal justice to be done and the forgiveness to take place anyways.

My forgiving the person does not necessarily exempt them from the consequences of law breaking.

Mostly it sets ME free.

[metmom]

A very good answer.

Thank you.

[ealgeone]

No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture. But the first scriptural passage which contains the promise of the redemption, mentions also the Mother of the Redeemer. The sentence against the first parents was accompanied by the Earliest Gospel (Proto-evangelium), which put enmity between the serpent and the woman: "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and her seed; she (he) shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her (his) heel" (Genesis 3:15). The translation "she" of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century, and cannot be defended critically.

A bad translation leading to bad theology.

You keep swinging and missing.

[mitch5501]

Amen metmom!
A FReeper once remarked (years ago,can’t remember who) “being unforgiving is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick”

[metmom]

I have heard the claim that penance (according to Catholicism) is to show how sorry you are for your sin.

However, there are a couple problems with that.

One is that God already knows if we’re truly sorry for the sin or not. Of just sorry we got caught.

And the second is that nothing shows sorrow for sin than turning from it, aka repenting, and not doing it any more instead of just performing a few religious exercises to avoid hellfire.

Forgiveness is NOT earned, merited or otherwise apprehended through any actions of our own.

Forgiveness is ALWAYS a gift, freely given, no strings attached, by the person offended. If it’s earned or worked for, it ceases to be a give and becomes payment of a debt owed. But the problem is, death is the penalty for sin and we cannot pay the debt we owe for our sin.

[ealgeone]

And, if penance was something we could do to atone for our sin then the Cross is negated.

There is nothing we can do that comes remotely close to the one time all forgiving sacrifice of Christ. Nothing.

Probably one of Rome's bigger errors....among many.

[ebb tide]

I have heard the claim that penance (according to Catholicism) is to show how sorry you are for your sin.

Then you must have heard that after you apostatized from the Catholic Church.

Why should any catholic listen to you?

[Big Red Badger]

Fascinating Post FRiend.

[ealgeone]

Why should any catholic listen to you?

That's the question we're asking of you....with this modification.....why should anyone listen to you?

[Karl Spooner]

I found "penance" 66 times in the Bible.

There is no such word in the sacred manuscripts. It had to be added by man in your bible, maybe for better understanding or maybe for a nefarious reason. Post a verse with penance and let's see if we can find how man monkeyed with the manuscripts. Is the word in italics like the KJV when a word is added?