Posted on 08/20/2024 10:27:20 AM PDT by metmom
If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, you Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:14-15
Joseph was the pride and joy of his father. Though Jacob had ten other sons, he favored Joseph, the one born to him in his old age. Jacob never bothered to hide his special feelings—not even from his other sons. In fact, he expressed his favoritism blatantly and visibly by having an expensive coat made especially for Joseph.
This did not go unnoticed by the older brothers, and they began to resent their spoiled young sibling. Joseph, who was either oblivious to their resentment or insensitive to it, made it worse by bragging to his brothers about his dreams that he would one day rule over them. In one dream, his brothers' sheaves of grain bowed down to his. In another dream, the sun, moon, and eleven stars bowed down to him.
Eventually, Joseph's vivid dreams and their father's favoritism so infuriated the brothers that they plotted Joseph's death. While trying to decide the best way to accomplish it, they spotted a caravan of spice traders on the way to Egypt. Instead of killing Joseph, they decided to sell him as a slave. They said good riddance to their dreaming brother and made up a story to tell their father about his favorite son's tragic fate.
(Excerpt) Read more at biblestudytools.com ...
Stop crawfishin'.
I had never mentioned penitence, until you confused it with contrition. So I set you straight on that.
Like it or not, both contrition and penance are mentioned in the Bible.
That's two strikes on you now.
Do you even own a Bible, let alone read one?
When we come to Christ in faith believing, our sin is dealt with for good. ALL of it.
Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Fixed it for you.....
Catholic theology on forgiveness is not Scriptural.
I confused it with absolution. And I admitted it before you said anything.
Find penance in the Bible. One verse. And don't come back with repentance. We both know that is different.
Clearly Catholics don’t believe in addressing forgiving each other, which, if you bother to read the article instead of knee jerk spewing Catholic talking points on the thread, you would understand.
Your responses are completely irrelevant to the topic and article at hand.
I seem to read it better than you do. I, at least, can tell the difference between the words "penance" and "repentance."
You just described a great deal of RC theology.
Catholicism deliberately conflates *repentance* and *penance* and mistranslates the Greek word for *repent* as *do penance*.
But paying back God, which is not possible, for the sin is not the same as turning from it and not doing it any more.
The Greek of Mt 11:20 is about repentance. Not doing penance. You ask people if they have a Bible. Question isn’t do you have a Bible…..the question is do you understand it. And the answer is NO.
Part of their issue is the DR translation. It’s really lead to some bad theology from Rome. Of the major translations the DR uses penance when it should be repentance. Those are two completely different ideas.
Forgiveness is indees a New Testament virtue, but Jesus didn’t come to throw open the jails and let unrepentant thugs roam free.
See Post 16.
Is that your rebuttal? Why do you continue to trivialize John 20:23? After all, it's in your "sola scriptura"?
Nobody said He did.
If you read the article, the point is about us forgiving each other for wrongs done to us as commanded by God.
Douay-Rheims Bible
|
| 1 | "Let him do penance for his sin, |
|---|---|
| 2 | "If thy people Israel shall fly before their enemies, (because they will sin against thee,) and doing penance, and confessing to thy name, shall come, and pray, and make supplications to thee in this house: |
| 3 | "If heaven shall be shut up, and there shall be no rain, because of their sins, and they praying in this place, shall do penance to thy name, and shall be converted from their sins, by occasion of their afflictions: |
| 4 | "Then if they do penance in their heart in the place of captivity, and being converted make supplication to thee in their captivity, saying: We have sinned, we have done unjustly, we have committed wickedness: |
| 5 | "If thy people Israel be overcome by their enemies, (for they will sin against thee,) and being converted shall do penance, and call upon thy name, and pray to thee in this place, |
| 6 | "And if they be converted in their heart in the land to which they were led captive, and do penance, and pray to thee in the land of their captivity, saying: We have sinned, we have done wickedly, we have dealt unjustly: |
| 7 | "And my people, upon whom my name is called, being converted, shall make supplication to me, and seek out my face, and do penance for their most wicked ways: then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sins and will heal their land. |
| 8 | "And after that he was in distress he prayed to the Lord his God: and did penance exceedingly before the God of his fathers. |
| 9 | "His prayer also, and his being heard, and all his sins, and contempt, and places wherein he built high places, and set up groves, and statues before he did penance, are written in the words of Hozai. |
| 10 | "Hear, I beseech you, my words, and do penance. |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | |||||||||||||
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Douay-Rheims Bible
|
| 1 | "Now when all these things shall be come upon thee, the blessing or the curse, which I have set forth before thee, and thou shalt be touched with repentance of thy heart among all the nations, into which the Lord thy God shall have scattered thee, |
|---|---|
| 2 | "And the children of Israel being moved with repentance for their brother Benjamin, began to say: One tribe is taken away from Israel. |
| 3 | "But the triumpher in Israel will not spare, and will not be moved to repentance: for he is not a man that he should repent. |
| 4 | "And Sechenias the son of Jehiel of the sons of Elam answered, and said to Esdras: We have sinned against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: and now if there be repentance in Israel concerning this, |
| 5 | "But thou hast mercy upon all, because thou canst do all things, and overlookest the sins of men for the sake of repentance. |
| 6 | "But executing thy judgments by degrees thou gavest them place of repentance, not being ignorant that they were a wicked generation, and their malice natural, and that their thought could never be changed. |
| 7 | "But thou hast taught thy people by such works, that they must be just and humane, and hast made thy children to be of a good hope: because in judging thou givest place for repentance for sins. |
| 8 | "For confusion and repentance is upon a thief, and an evil mark of disgrace upon the double tongued, but to the whisperer hatred, and enmity, and reproach. |
| 9 | "How good is it, when thou art reproved, to shew repentance! for so thou shalt escape wilful sin. |
| 10 | "Henoch pleased God, and was translated into paradise, that he may give repentance to the nations. |
| 1 | 2 | ||||||||||||||||||
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0.004 seconds |
Forgiveness is indees a New Testament virtue, but Jesus didn’t come to throw open the jails and let unrepentant thugs roam free.
......
Nobody said he did.
*******
Not in do many words. But isn’t forgiveness nowadays being used to justify excusing criminality in a lawless culture? We don’t live in a society that, like ancient Rome or Dikensian England, is characterized by extreme lack of forgiveness.
By one man sin came into the world....
Roman’s 5:19 ...
for The Bible Nerds.
Forgiveness is to release someone from the debt or obligation they owe you from when that person harmed you.
Practicality, as it lives out ..in real life;
1-you never bring it up to them again
2-you never bring it up to others
3-you never bring it up to yourself
The key is to release them from their debt.
They will never know the debt they owe you and they can never repay it. For reference, please read Matthew 18 and the parable of the merciful servant. He had no idea the amount he owed and it was an utterly unpayable debt. It is a perfect picture of us, in front of our Holy God (the king in the parable) and our relationship to him, in light of our relationship to others (the fellow servants in the parable). Specifically and in context, the parable is addressed to Jesus’s followers and how to treat other followers.
In the parable, it is the one who doesn’t forgive who ends up in prison and tortured. Given a pause to contemplate this, it is true. The ones who harm us move along with their lives, often never knowing the damage and harm they caused us and never looking back. It is us as we fail to forgive who are stuck in a prison of our own making as we torture ourselves in unforgiving anger toward the other.
SOMEONE has to pay the price though.
It cannot simply go unpaid.
So who pays the price?
The one who must forgive.
It seems unjust.
Think of all the things we did wrong to others and God, for which we were forgiven.
How can we, in clear conscience withhold the same mercy toward others?
Jesus did that for us. He paid the price He didn’t owe, for a debt to God we cannot even comprehend, or ever pay back with enough good deeds.
So how does this work for us?
Were given some practical keys in Ephesians, at the close of chapter 4;
“30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
V30; Unforgiveness grieves God. He knows how much he forgave you.
V31; Get rid of bitterness (upset) wrath and anger (raging) and clamor (gossip, don’t bring it up), along with malice (the desire and plot to get even with the other person)
V32 just be kind to them and patient. Remember, forgive them as you are forgiven by God.
Treat them like God treats you. As far as East is from west- so far had He removed our sins and He remembers them no more.
Is it difficult? Yes. It’s a constant wrestle early on, but it gets easier as we see the immense mercy and kindness of God upon us.
Is it required of us? Absolutely!
Recall the Lord’s prayer “...forgive us (me) as (in the SAME WAY) as we (I) forgive others.”
Are we rely certain that we want to be forgiven like we forgive others? Most would honestly say “no way!” In this is a call to humility and to repent for not forgiving others with a heart that cries; “I want to do better. I want to forgive. Please help me to walk right God”
I hope this helps to address your question.
His incredible peace to you.
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