Posted on 03/21/2024 3:47:09 PM PDT by DoodleBob
Then what did he do to himself?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Well, if so then I guess one can repent of a sin not yet committed?
However this means nothing in regards to their eternal life. Or death.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
And you learned this how?
True repentence does not result in suicide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nor can one repent of a future sin one then proceeds to commit.
Parables illustrate a point. The point of the parable you cited is not the existence of hell, so it is not a suitable vehicle for determining doctrines about hell.
And you learned this how?
_________________________________________
OK, ya got me. But as the subject was the possibility of Peter going to Hell, I naturally assumed he is not there. In fact, Jesus gave him the keys to Heaven.
But if you think otherwise, say so.
just and merciful judge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Justice and mercy are fundamentally antithetical.
always a chance for repentance; you just have to mean it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Definitely NOT always!
Judas was repentant and so devastated that he could no longer live with himself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Isn’t intentionally terminating one’s life an unrepentant sin?
Let's cut to the chase:
Do you believe Hell exists?
Do you believe there are souls now in Hell?
But if you think otherwise, say so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry, I thought you were referring to Judas. Seems to me safe to assume Peter was saved, but Judas probably not unless it’s possible to first repent of a sin like suicide and then proceed to do it.
Not sure Scripture supports the notion of anyone burning in hell right now.
Parables are insufficient for doctrinal foundation.
You're truly amazing with your rationalizations.
Are you a Jesuit, perchance?
Free will does not mean unpredictable. It means determined by the will of an agent. If you watch somebody take an action that does not mean they had no choice I the matter. Even if you watched them through a magic crystal ball that let you see their action before they took it.
On the cross Jesus asked God the father to forgive those who crucified him. Because they didn’t know what they were doing. Judas Iscariot knew what he was doing. The devil goaded him on. IMHO.
2 Corinthians 7:10 indicates there there are two kinds of sorrow...
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
The worldly sorrow of Judas brought him a physical death. Perhaps eternal death as well.
The timing of when Hell is created and populated is far less important than the fact that it will be, as I indicated originally by terming my post merely as a point of order--that is, as a lighthearted technicality.
ἐγένετο δὲ ἀποθανεῖν τὸν πτωχὸν καὶ ἀπενεχθῆναι αὐτὸν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀγγέλων εἰς τὸν κόλπον Ἀβραάμ ἀπέθανεν δὲ καὶ ὁ πλούσιος καὶ ἐτάφη
Which the ESV translates as:
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried,
What is sometimes translated as "hell" is in the next verse:
καὶ ἐν τῷ ᾅδῃ ἐπάρας τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτοῦ ὑπάρχων ἐν βασάνοις ὁρᾷ Ἀβραὰμ ἀπὸ μακρόθεν καὶ Λάζαρον ἐν τοῖς κόλποις αὐτοῦ
Which the ESV translates as:
and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
What the ESV translates as "Hades" is the Greek word: ᾅδης (strongs G86).
Perhaps you will want to look at the other uses of this Greek word in the New Testement on This Blue Letter Bible site link
In particular the last usages where ᾅδης seems to be some kind of evil agent that rides a horse and is eventually thrown into the lake of fire.
The link for Strong's definition of the word is on this link
I think there is more detail revealed here than you realize.
There is a difference between a disinterested observer as in your example, and the Being that created the whole system that results in people certainly going to Hell, especially when most traditional Christian sects believe that the number of people going to Hell will far outnumber those going to Heaven.
My example was about whether there was a logical conflict between free will and determinism. The differences you bring up seem to be orthogonal to that point. For the sake of argument lets say that God is horribly unfair and sadistic and only created the world to get some kind of pleasure in the eternal torment of many souls. That might be the grounds for arguing against Christianity which supposes God is good and so forth. However it seems unrelated to the question as to whether there is a logical conflict between free will and determinism.
Please explain; perhaps I am wrong, if so, I’d like to know why.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.