Posted on 03/02/2024 9:14:38 AM PST by ebb tide
The Vatican released a video address proving that a scandalous painting portraying a nude Jesus ministering to Judas, Christ’s own betrayer, hangs in Pope Francis’ personal study.
Vatican News on Wednesday released a video address from Pope Francis delivered that day to the Pan-American Committee of Judges for Social Rights and Franciscan Doctrine (COPAJU), showing that the controversial painting is indeed hanging in Francis’ study, behind his desk.
In 2021, the Vatican’s own newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, revealed that the artist donated the painting to Francis and that it hung “behind the desk” of the Pope. However, proof of this has not been made visible to the public until now.
The Vatican-approved publication displayed a portion of the painting as its cover photo in 2021. A comparison shows it is clearly the painting hanging in Francis’ study.
The 2021 Vatican editorial explained that that painting was inspired by Francis’ 2018 book, Quando pregate dite Padre Nostro, in which Francis suggests Judas may not be in hell. This idea directly conflicts with statements of previous popes and Our Lord Himself, who said of Judas it would be better for him that he had not been born.
2018 was not the only time Francis has pushed the notion that Judas may be saved. In 2020, he did the same thing in a televised homily in his private chapel on Wednesday of Holy Week, where he had to read that very passage where Jesus says it would be better for Judas not to have been born.
“How did Judas end up? I don’t know,” Pope Francis said at the time.
Nevertheless, the teaching of the church is clear on the damnation of Judas. The Catechism of the Council of Trent is very explicit on this point, saying that Judas “lost soul and body” and that his betrayal despite his priesthood “brought him everlasting destruction.”
Moreover, the first Pope, St. Peter, was clear that after Judas betrayed Christ he had to be replaced as an apostle, whereas after the deaths of other apostles they were not replaced.
Theologian Peter Kwasniewski explained this point well in an essay at Rorate Caeli:
The first Pope argues that Judas, by his transgression, fell away from the apostleship forever. Note that Judas was the only apostle whose place had to be filled after his death. When James was killed by Herod (Acts 12:2), Peter and the others did not appoint another man as a James substitute. There were successors to the apostles (and many more than 12 of them!), but no other replacements. Ultimately, all of the original 11 together with Matthias left this world in death to become the everlasting foundations of the heavenly Jerusalem: “And the wall of the city had 12 foundations, and in them, the 12 names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” (Rev 21:14). Put simply, an apostle who died in a state of grace is an apostle forever, irreplaceable, going to his reward as a permanent foundation stone of the Church. This can only mean that Judas, who had to be replaced, died in sin and lost his ministry and apostleship forever. He went “to his own place,” that is, the place that befitted him: hell.
But we hardly need go to the Catechism or even the first Pope on this question when Our Lord Himself has already been explicit on it. Three times in the Scriptures, Jesus is recorded as indicating Judas’ ultimate fate. In John 6:71, Jesus calls Judas a devil. He says “Have not I chosen you 12? And one of you is a devil.” The following verse explains, “Now he meant Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon; for this same was about to betray him, whereas he was one of the 12.”
In John 17:12, Jesus calls Judas the “son of perdition” in his prayer to God the Father. “While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept: and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition: that the scripture may be fulfilled.”
And finally, in both the Gospels of Matthew 26:24 and Mark 14:21, we hear Jesus saying of Judas: “It would be better for that man if he had never been born.”
I wonder if Jesus was “ ministering” or being “ ministered”.
Leftists will take over every institution because they want to get control and money. They go wherever the money is. It stands to reason that they would get control over the major religions just like they have the schools and universities and courts and news media and entertainment and all of the government.
“But when you use that link”
I went after a second opinion as I don’t always trust someone’s entry. I found that the other site I used was the same picture to include the hands, so I am comfortable that most likely the original picture hasn’t been doctored. Happens a lot these days. And I thought that the ability to doctor pictures on computer was common knowledge also, I don’t trust hardly anyone anymore. Especilly when to my knowledge the only source of proving the incident in the picture actually happened, the Bible, other than opinion, doesn’t mention it anywhere. Just that Judas died possibly two ways.
wy69
What’s depicted in the painting isn’t Biblical.
"Jesus forgives sin and was possibly doing that to Judas in the picture".
That's not in the Bible.
So is it real or just the painters imagination? I don’t know of any proof.
Are you serious? You really don't know of any proof?
And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou has given me; that they may be one, as we also are. While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.
John 17:11-12
Who do you think that "son of perdition" who is now "lost" is?
Try spending more time studying the Bible rather than thinking outside of it, like the painter and Bergoglio are doing.
The good thief, Dismas, asked for Christ’s forgiveness; and he received it. That’s in the Bible.
Judas asking Christ for forgiveness is not in the Bible. Nor is there any record of the second thief on a cross asking for, or receiving, forgiveness from Christ.
He never asked Jesus to forgive him. He did not experience spiritual penitence but only emotional remorse
You really think so?
40 But the other answering, rebuked him, saying: Neither dost thou fear God, seeing thou art condemned under the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this man hath done no evil.
42 And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom.
Luke 23
The following is from the Doay-Rheims bible:
16- Men, brethren, the scripture must needs be fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was the leader of them that apprehended Jesus [Acts Of Apostles 1:16] 17 Who was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out.
Acts, Chapter 1
what bible are you sourcing.
The New International Version
The NIV offers a balance between a word-for-word and thought-for-thought translation and is considered by many as a highly accurate and smooth-reading version of the Bible in modern English.
Everything is not in the Bible. Things happened at that time that were not written about. Otherwise the volumn would be thousands and thousands of pages and there would be many other entries than just what some consider the apostles. So did it happen or not. You have no more proof that it did than if it may not have. And what it appears to be is what the possibility was I said from my point of view. It was a picture of Christ administering Judas because the artist said it was. It’s ll interpretation. Kind of like trying to interpret abstract art. It’s what you see.
And if it didn’t happen, then why is it in Pope Francis’ private office on his wall? I’m not saying it did, but we do not know the where abouts of Christ all the time after his rising. So is it or not. And since the Pope has it on his wall, could it. For that, ask him. He’s the one displaying it.
wy69
what bible are you sourcing.
The New International Version
The NIV offers a balance between a word-for-word and thought-for-thought translation and is considered by many as a highly accurate and smooth-reading version of the Bible in modern English.
Everything is not in the Bible. Things happened at that time that were not written about. Otherwise the volumn would be thousands and thousands of pages and there would be many other entries than just what some consider the apostles. So did it happen or not. You have no more proof that it did than if it may not have. And what it appears to be is what the possibility was I said from my point of view. It was a picture of Christ administering Judas because the artist said it was. It’s ll interpretation. Kind of like trying to interpret abstract art. It’s what you see.
And if it didn’t happen, then why is it in Pope Francis’ private office on his wall? I’m not saying it did, but we do not know the where abouts of Christ all the time after his rising. So is it or not. And since the Pope has it on his wall, could it. For that, ask him. He’s the one displaying it.
wy69
And you're the one defending it.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Do you truly believe that a naked Christ could have forgiven a dead Judas, the lost "son of perditition"?
And since when does one need a "smooth-reading" Bible that omits "having been hanged"? Is that too "rough" for you?
But you seem to reject what is in the Bible in deference to what is not in the Bible.
And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou has given me; that they may be one, as we also are. While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.
John 17:11-12
That is very strange indeed, then again the RCC cult is the same.
If anyone can save Judas, it is Christ. Then again, the Catholics teach that no matter the sin, you can ask for forgiveness and it is yours. Actually, I think all Christians teach that Repentance before death, and Salvation after.
I cannot answer any of these things with authority. We will find out someday, pro or con.... ALL of us.
“But you seem to reject what is in the Bible in deference to what is not in the Bible.”
Where in the world did you come up wih that. This thing has gone full circle and collapsed. I not only showed you in the NIV Bible where I read the parts I quoted but gave you a source each of the differing views as quoted two different sources one in Mathew and the other in Acts. Do you bother to read the board before you apply your answer to everything whether it matches or not? If all you’re going to do is troll, leave me out.
wy69
But in the painting, Judas is already dead.
I’ve proved to you that your two sources do not differ.
Both mention a “hanged Judas”. You need to pitch your “smooth-reading” “bible.
It appears you are the one not reading with comprehension.
But you seem to reject what is in the Bible in deference to what is not in the Bible.
Placemark
I'll keep that in mind when people who trust the entirety of God's Word (2 Tim 3:16) refer to Mary's sin nature (Rom 3:23), the children she had with Joseph (Mark 3:32 et al), what you call your "priests" (Mt 23:8-12), your transubstantiation problem (Mt 26:26), an most significantly your works-based salvation issues (Rom 10:10-13)
Naturally, you will get all defensive and respond with something unscriptural, thus proving your hypocrisy, by using "everything is not in the Bible" while rejecting what IS in the Bible and complaining about sola scripture. Honestly, you're a broken record.
Or, you'll entice me to run after some red-herring by accusing me of some error that you imagine in your dark little mind.
I've read it all before.
Have a nice day.
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