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1 posted on 11/08/2023 12:11:15 PM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
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To: Roman_War_Criminal; telescope115; Halls; Mrs.Z; ConjunctionJunction; Library Lady; patriot torch; ..

End Times Ping

FReemail me if you wish to be added to or removed from The End Times Ping List.

Knowing that the Church of Christ has not, nor will ever, replace Israel is crucial towards any End Times Eschatological Study.

Maranatha!


2 posted on 11/08/2023 12:12:42 PM PST by Roman_War_Criminal (Jesus + Something = Nothing ; Jesus + Nothing = Everything )
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

God’s people are those who follow Him.

Period.


3 posted on 11/08/2023 12:12:57 PM PST by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

God hasn’t replaced Israel, but He *has* set aside Israel until the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, at which point then “all Israel shall be saved.”

Ultimately, God’s people are all those - Jew or Gentile - who have believed on Christ in faith. The current Jewish rejection of Christ is not compatible with that. Once they believe on Him nationally at His return, they will be grafted back in and receive all the promises God has made to them.


4 posted on 11/08/2023 12:14:49 PM PST by Yashcheritsiy (I'd rather have one king 3000 miles away that 3000 kings one mile away)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
Please know this is an error

Thus spake Pope Terry James.

I guess "private interpretation of Scripture" isn't part of his organization's teachings and beliefs.

6 posted on 11/08/2023 12:17:49 PM PST by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

I was just arguing this very point with a friend. He believes that the new Jews are NOT the same as the Old Testament Jews and are therefore no longer God’s people.

I disagreed 100% and assured him that the today’s State of Israel in God’s eyes is the same one as when He drew up the Old Covenant with Moses, Abraham and Isaac.

God does not renege on His promises, EVER!


8 posted on 11/08/2023 12:18:38 PM PST by JJBookman (Democrats = Party of broken promises )
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Although he did not address the book of Revelation, there is the passage about the 144,000 Jews sealed during the Great Tribulation, 12,000 from each tribe.


11 posted on 11/08/2023 12:21:10 PM PST by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

If anyone thinks God has broken his promise and has abandoned His people, which vine do they think they are grafted onto? If they reject that instead, don’t they just wither?


12 posted on 11/08/2023 12:21:43 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

The Catholic Church has firmly rejected “Replacement Theology.”

This was an outcome of intense discussions during Vatican II and was promulgated in the famous document “Nostra Aetate” by Pope Paul VI in 1965.

As an aside, this is one problem with the “trad” movement. This pope despises all things traditional, but nothing can be proven wrong with the Tridentine Mass. More to the point is the trad rejection of Vatican II, which could include Nostra, and thus lead to theological confusion and anti-semitism among “trad Catholics.”


18 posted on 11/08/2023 12:26:25 PM PST by Marchmain (gobble!)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Thanks for posting the message.
I believe that Israel (the one in the OT) and the Jews are still part of God’s plan.
Not real sure how much it matters, since I am NOT God.
I don’t believe the Bible teaches infant baptism. Again, I don’t know what difference it makes EXCEPT …. actually, that makes something of a difference.
As an adult believer in the Lord Jesus Christ I was baptized in …. Believer’s Baptism.
IOW this is a command of Christ.
BTW don’t be a Jew-hater. (I speak to everyone, not to the thread starter.)


22 posted on 11/08/2023 12:31:02 PM PST by Honest Nigerian
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
Those Believing the Church Has Replaced Israel

Who comes up with these loony ideas anyway?

26 posted on 11/08/2023 12:34:58 PM PST by Jim W N (MAGA by restoring the Gospel of the Grace of Christ (Jude 3) and our Free Constitutional Republic!)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

I have a family member who believes this, and it has utterly poisoned him. It now has developed into a vicious hatred of Israel and of Jews.


33 posted on 11/08/2023 12:44:25 PM PST by M. Thatcher
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
a doctrine stating either that the Church took Israel’s place as God’s people when Israel rejected Jesus as its Messiah

Romans is crystal clear that (a) God only has one family, not two (or any other number), and (b) the believing Gentiles are grafted into that family in place of the unbelieving. Why is there really any argument over that?

No matter how it got there, the Church is now God’s people

One family, not two. God's people encompass both believing Jews and believing Gentiles. Read the New Testament.

and the beneficiary of the promises God made Israel in the Old Testament.

Certainly not! Those promises, from the Church's point of view, are typological. They point to bigger things. The real "land of milk and honey" is heaven, not a tract of land in the eastern Mediterranean. The real "exodus" is the believer's conversion from sin and death to life and faith in Christ. And so forth.

It doesn't follow that the original promises, to the original people to whom they were made, in the original sense in which they were understood, are any less valid. The gifts of God are without repentance.

Consequently, Jacob’s blood descendants have no unique destiny

It's settled Catholic doctrine that the conversion of the Jews is one of the events that herald the Second Coming. Obviously they have a unique destiny, or they wouldn't be here. (Ever met a Hittite? Me neither.)

and modern Israel’s existence has no significance.

I think we should be careful about equating "Israel" in Scripture with "Israel" on the (present-day) map. "Israel" in Scripture always included all twelve tribes. "Israel" on the map today doesn't, and probably can't.

Does modern-day "Israel" have prophetic significance? Maybe, watch and see.

Articles like these amount to elaborate strawman arguments, at least as far as Catholics are concerned. Maybe they are more meaningful against, e.g., dominionist Presbyterians. Maybe not, I don't know.

36 posted on 11/08/2023 12:52:44 PM PST by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

What churches still teach replacement theology?

To my knowledge, it’s just Lutherans and its spin-offs: Methodist and Presbyterian. Maybe Church of Christ. Probably also the Episcopal.


39 posted on 11/08/2023 1:05:40 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Sometimes There Is No Lesser Of Two Evils)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
My understanding is that Christ is the culmination of God's promises to the Jews. Christ is the promise. Christ completely fulfilled the law and therefore had the authority to implement the new covenant which includes all mankind, Jew and Gentile alike. Through Christ, those who believe become members of God's chosen. Ro 11:25 "... until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." ie. be come into God's chosen.

So I do not see the Jews as being replaced; only that the new covenant was established and that all people are now invited.

40 posted on 11/08/2023 1:06:31 PM PST by VinnieCCT
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
"For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?” (Romans 11:11-15).

This passage not only destroys the replacement theory, it also tells us the Jews must come to Christ before the rapture/resurrection occurs.

42 posted on 11/08/2023 1:18:19 PM PST by aimhigh (1 John 3:23 "And THIS is His commandment . . . . ")
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
Replacement theology leads those who have adopted it to believe that Israel is no longer God’s people and that the modern regathering of the Jews in their historical land is theologically meaningless.

Why does Satan care?

57 posted on 11/08/2023 2:13:28 PM PST by the_daug ( )
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

I wonder if one could even bring up Tony Evan’s theology of transdispensationalism - probably not


70 posted on 11/08/2023 2:39:04 PM PST by 11th_VA (<>< Good News: Barbarians at not at the gate; Bad News: They’re in the city)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

A great commentary. Thanks for posting Bro

Because some within the church teach another gospel (replacement theology), they have themselves become accursed. God is not a Covenant breaker as some would teach.

Galatians 1:8-10
King James Version

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.


73 posted on 11/08/2023 2:48:30 PM PST by patriot torch (..)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

The Five Biggest Errors of Dispensationalism

1. CHURCH AGE. Dispensationalists would have us believe that the church age is but a parenthesis in history. In other words, the church age constituted an “interruption” in the fulfilment of the kingdom promises to Israel. But, Christ was not a sidelight. That idea is an abomination and an affront to our Lord Jesus Christ. The kingdom of Christ―the New Covenant/Christian Age―is in effect now (Matthew 16:19; Colossians 1:13) and has NO END. There are dozens of passages which prove that, including: 2 Samuel 7:13; Isaiah 9:7; Ezekiel 37:26; Daniel 2:44; 4:3, 34; 7:14, 27; Luke 1:31-33; Hebrews 5:6; 2 Peter 1:11; Revelation 1:6; 5:13; 11:15. Furthermore, the New Covenant and the gospel are eternal (Hebrews 12:28; 13:20; Revelation 14:6) and has universal application (John 3:16; Romans 1:16; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 1:21; Titus 2:11; 1 John 4:14; Revelation 5:9; 7:9).

2. DUAL COVENANT THEOLOGY. Dispensationalists think that Israel will re-emerge as pre-eminent among nations; they will again be God’s people in a unique sense. But, this conception of the future was obliterated with the teachings of Paul that all distinctions between Jew and Gentile have been broken down by the gospel (Galatians 3:28). And, the Bible is clear that the promises to Israel were contingent on obedience (Deuteronomy 28). The New Testament declares that all of God’s covenant promises were fulfilled in Jesus (Luke 1:54-55, 69-75; 2 Corinthians 1:20), the ultimate offspring of Abraham (Matthew 1:1; Galatians 3:16). The Jews failed the obedience test and the Old Covenant had a finite end (Matthew 21:18-19; 23:29-39; Romans 11:11-24; Hebrews 8:13; 10:8-10; etc.) The kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to another group, namely the church (Matthew 21:33-45)―melding a remnant of faithful Jews with believers in Christ (Romans 11:1-24; Galatians 3:28). The new Israel of God is no longer fleshly, natural Israel, but rather are those who have faith in Jesus Christ (John 1:12-13; 8:31-47; Romans 2:28-29; 9:6-8; Galatians 3:6-9, 25-29; 6:14-16; 1 Peter 2:4-10; etc.).

3. MISUNDERSTANDING THE LAST DAYS/END TIMES. There are 19 specific mentions of the last days or end times in the New Testament. Without exception, the writers of the New Testament declared that THEY were living in the last days (Acts 2:14-21; 1 Corinthians 7:19-21; 10:11; Hebrews 1:1-2; 9:26; 1 Peter 1:20; 4:7; 1 John 2:18; etc.) Thus, the last days/end times marked the end of the old covenant order, not the end of time or the end of the Christian Age.

4. INSISTENCE ON ALWAYS READING THE BIBLE LITERALLY. Just some questions: Should we literally hate our mother and father so that we can be Jesus’ disciple (Luke 14:26)? If your eye causes you to sin, should you literally pluck it out (Mark 9:47)? Is it necessary to literally eat Christ’s body in order to have life (John 6:53)? Did the mountains and the hills really break into song and the trees clap their hands (Isaiah 55:12)? When God judged Babylon according to Isaiah’s prophecy, an event fulfilled in actual history in 539 BC, did the stars and sun literally stop giving their light (Isaiah 13:10) and the heavens literally tremble (Isaiah 13:13)? When God judged Edom did the sky literally roll up like a scroll (Isaiah 34:4)? Why do you insist on a literal earthly kingdom when Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36)? Is the New Jerusalem literally a future city 1400 miles square that will hover over the Middle East like a space ship? Geeze. Especially this literal millennial stuff, if it wasn’t being taught in Christian churches, it would be considered science fiction!

5. FUTURIZING DANIEL’S 70 WEEKS. Here are things that cannot be found in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27: the Antichrist, a covenant being made with the Jews by Antichrist (then broken), a gap of 2,000 years between the 69th and 70th weeks, a post AD 70 rebuilt temple. If these things are not found in Daniel 9, dispensationalism crumbles. Daniel 9:27 is clear that the prophecy ended with the “end to sacrifice and offering” and the Abomination of Desolation (which Jesus told his first-century followers they would witness per Matthew 24:15). These things happened in real time in AD 70 when the temple was destroyed (Matthew 24:2, 34).

For more dispensationalism, go here:

https://prophecyquestions.com/category/dispensationalism


90 posted on 11/08/2023 3:13:07 PM PST by grumpa
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

Prophecy Questions for Dispensationalists

1. What passage of Scripture do you find that Christ will come for his saints to take them off planet earth to heaven to avoid a great tribulation?

2. What’s the difference between Israel and the church? In other words, how were Old Testament Jews saved, compared to Jews today? Do you believe that there two covenants―one for Jews and one for others?

3. If the church age was only a parenthesis, why do so many passages teach that Jesus is head of the church and reigns as King of Kings now from heaven forever (Isaiah 9:6-7; Matthew 28:18; Luke 1:33; John 5:22; Acts 7:48-50; 10:36; 1 Corinthians 15:25; 1 Timothy 6:15; Hebrews 1:3; 8:1-4; Revelation 1:5; 3:21; 11:15; 19:16)?

4. If there is to be a re-built temple with animal sacrifices and rituals, wouldn’t that be denigrating to Christ’s ONCE-FOR-ALL sacrifice (Hebrews 10:10)?

5. If we are in the New Covenant era, which Scripture says is FOREVER (Hebrews 13:20; Revelation 14:6), why would God go back to a temple system of the Old Covenant which Paul called bondage (Galatians 4)?

6. If the land promise to Israel is forever and unconditional, why did God say it was conditional in Deuteronomy 28?

7. Wasn’t the kingdom taken from the Jews (Matthew 21:33-45) and given to another group, the “Israel of God” (Galatians 6:15-16)―those individuals, either Jew or Gentile, who believe (Matthew 3:7-12; 22:1-8; 23:29-24:2; Romans 2:28-29; 10:1-4; 11:17-21; Galatians 3:28-29, 4:24-31; Hebrews 8:13; 12:22-29)?

8. If God has two different plans for Jews and Gentiles, why does Paul say there isn’t any longer a distinction (Romans 10:12; Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11)?

9. Don’t all the New Testament texts comparing Israel to a fig tree (ref. Jeremiah 24) point to Israel/Jerusalem’s destruction rather than its restoration (Matthew 21:19; Luke 13:6-9; 21:29-32)?

10. Do you believe two-thirds of the Jews will be slaughtered in a Holocaust II (John Walvoord’s book Israel in Prophecy)? If so, how can you call yourself pro-Israel? Isn’t this teaching based on one verse―Zechariah 13:8―yet the New Testament places the previous verse (13:7) squarely in the time of Christ (Mark 14:12; Hebrews 13:20)? Isn’t it clear enough that Zechariah 14:2 must refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70?

11. If the Bible is to be interpreted 100% literally, why are terms like “must shortly take place,” “soon,” “near,” “at hand” not read literally?

12. Where in the Bible do we find the words “seven-year tribulation?”

13. If the Great Tribulation was to was to be global, why did Jesus say to his followers that they could avoid it by fleeing to the mountains (Matthew 24:16)?

14. Is there a single verse that explicitly teaches that the antichrist with make a covenant with the Jews and then break it?

15. Didn’t John teach that the antichrist was already in the world when he was writing (1 John 4:4)?

16. Doesn’t the New Testament explain that while the physical temple was about to be destroyed (Matthew 24:2; 34), it was being replaced by the church with Christ as the cornerstone and Christians as the living stones (Ephesians 2:20-22; 1 Peter 2:4-8; Revelation 21:22)?

17. Doesn’t every mention of the last days/end times in the New Testament refer to the first century (Matthew 24:3, 14, 34; Acts 2:14-20; 1 Corinthians 7:29-31; 10:11; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 3:1-5; Hebrews 1:2; 9:26; James 5:3-9; 1 Peter 1:5, 20; 4:7; 2 Peter 3:3; 1 John 2:18; Jude 18).

Here are MORE Questions for Dispensationalists?

https://prophecyquestions.com/2014/01/10/prophecy-questions-specifically-for-dispensationalists


100 posted on 11/08/2023 3:24:19 PM PST by grumpa
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