Posted on 11/08/2023 12:11:15 PM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
Remember that time I asked someone why he was interpreting scripture without a priest to interpret for him? He said he wasn’t interpreting it, he was just reading it, and telling me what it says? It was the laugh heard around the world. Down with replacement theology.
I appreciate your comments on this thread, very needful.
Thank you for saying that. Others on this thread tell me I’m not wanted. Then again, they’ve bought in to Satan’s lies and have been hopelessly hoodwinked. So there’s that.
The RC cop out answer!
Yup....
Based on what STANDARD?
There are many; when trying to convince us what Face Value 'really' means, tend to says things like, "Well, in the Greek there is..." whatever.
So; what we get; is just ANOTHER 'translation' from some 'expert' or educator.
I'll let those guys who manage to wrest English from Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etal to do the heavy lifting. I'll just use the English output; no matter how it lays.
I have a sudden craving for popped corn!
NIV is not the worst translation…..that’d be the Cotton Patch translation.
The Message gets my vote for the worst version of the Bible.
Sometimes looking at the Greek is very enlightening because it gets into subtilties that elude a direct word for word translation.
An example is this in Romans 12:2 on the word *renewing*.
https://biblehub.com/greek/342.htm
Going down, you find it’s connected to the word for renovation, which carries a connotation of leaving the basic structure in place but replacing all the non-essential stuff that needs to go.
We’ve done enough house renovations to really appreciate the difference between *renew* and *renovate*. There’s a world of difference between slapping a coat of paint on the walls to give them a face life, and actually gutting the old and putting up new, better built and better quality walls.
Looking at the Greek or Hebrew often adds a richness to what I am reading without actually changing the meaning.
IMHO one of the glaring weaknesses in preaching today is the lack of use of the original languages.
Their use was instrumental during the Reformation. It helped them understand what Rome had not been teaching.
NIV was created using “dynamic equivalence,” meaning it is NOT a “word for word” translation but rather what people thought the authors were trying to convey. Plus, like I said, the translators were using corrupted manuscripts. In addition, the translators came from every major denomination, including the most liberal ones, many of whom deny the basic tenants of true Christian faith. The KJV was a word for word translation, they used the Majority Text, not corrupted ones, and only the most learned and faithful Christian translators worked on it.
Beloved John, in his epistle to the followers of Jesus who are being discipled by him in the doctrine of the Apostles, says this in a simple but very piercing assessment of one's stance with the Godhead:
1 John 4:4-6 (AV; bolding added for emphasis and indices for clarification)Thus Beloved John here gives Metmom and Roman_War_Criminal the scriptural incontestible authority to judge the reliability of each other as well as you, or anyone who professes to be a "Christian" whether they be genuine or no. The standard is whether or not they each "hear" (γινώσκω), not merely "listen to" (ἀκούω) or "be aware of" (ἰδού) the doctrines that the Apostles taught (2 Thess. 2:15) and fully understand with spiritual discernment (1 Cor. 2:13-16, Php. 2:5)
Ye1 are of God, little children1, and have overcome them 2: because greater is he3 that is in you, than he4 that is in the world. They5are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We6 are of God: he that knoweth God heareth* us7; he that is not of God heareth not5 us. Hereby know we7 the spirit of truth7, and the spirit of error4.
=========
Indexed notes:
1. Inclusive to the regenerated spirit-born trainees discipling with John, figuratively addressed as τεκνια, (his) little (spiritual)children 2. The demonic spirits (including the Wicked One) that guide the unregenerated humans falsely professing to be "Christians"
3. The Comforter, the Holy Spirit, that fills and guides the spiritually matured disciple (cf. Jn. 14:26, Eph. 5:18, Col. 3:16)
4. Satan, The Adversary, the god of this world, the lying Devil and father of those humans falsely professing to be an instrument of the Godhead (See 2 Cor. 4:4; Jn. 8:3-44 context)
5. Humans under the guidance of lying spirits, false prophets (Jn. 8:44. 10:25-26; Mt. 24:24, Mk. 13:22)
6. Specifically the faithful primary Apostles alone personally taught by Jesus and alone permitted to orally teach voicing the Will of the descended Holy Spirit, and whose inspired words are faihfully inscripturated (Acts 2:42, 1 Thess. 2:13; Rom. 6:17)
7. The citation here forces the "we" to include not only the Apostles, but also their disciples orally instructed by them, as well as anyone who has heard and obeyedthe doctrine of the Apostles and received by spiritual rebirth the Indwelling Holy Spirit that allows the mature progressively sanctified servant of The Christ to overcome the wicked one (1 Jn. 2:13,14)
8. The Spirit of the Messiah, the Anointed One (John 14:5; Rom. 8:9, 1 Pet. 1:11)
* γινώσκω (ginōskō. pronounced ghin-oce'-koh)
A prolonged form of a primary verb; to “know” (absolutely), in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as shown at left, with others not thus clearly expressed): - allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) known (-ledge), perceive, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.
I'm afraid, NorthMountain, that it does seem to me that you use a lot of doctrinal talk and RCC dogma, but that you firstly do not "hear" what the Apostles have to say; and secondly cannot receive a cautionary note to those who do exercise spiritual discernment, and warn you of your erroneous interpretations of deafness to the soul-saving scripture passages.
Your misconsrtuing of the situation is because your inclination is to assert that your authority to speak the reiteration of the opinions of the (ineffably but certainly fallible) Magisterium of the RCC; that it is the only acceptable authority over competing interpretations of the Scriptures given by the Apostles and prophets of the Old and New Testaments; whereas Bible students like RWC and MM and myself believe that the infallible inerrant preserved inspired insripturated words of the Apostles and prophets speaking for God is the sole authority over itself and over the standards for confidence of and in its readers and implementers.
Your stance simply is nonsensical, unsustainable when faced with obvious inconsistencies in theory and practice.
I wish it were otherwise, for your sake, and for those who you might influence. Personal? Sure, because the errors proceed from a person and the organization from which his misperceptions are doggedly issued.
While true, it just adds a little bit more fuel to the fire of those who find merely one, uh, thing in the punchbowl as an excuse to pour it all out.
We Christians end up finding over Scriptural words (something that Scriptural words warn about) and the guys on the outside use that as an reason to avoid all of it.
Here are a few simple ways that you can agree to disagree with Christians from outside your theological tradition or denomination:
1.) Immediately question their salvation. The best way to begin opening the lines of communication between you and a believer from a different background is to instantly and vocally doubt their justification before the Lord. This shows right off the bat that you care about their eternal soul.
2.) Try to find extremely minor points of disagreement. Don’t get hung up on major areas of agreement like justification by faith or the necessity of the atonement. Rather, hone in on the extremely unimportant things you disagree on, like your preferred pew color and the kind of shirt the pastor wears in their denomination.
3.) Punch them in the face. The Greeks had several different words for love, one of which was philia, literally translated as “punching another believer in the face because you disagree.” As they’re howling in pain on the floor trying to hold their teeth in their mouth, you’ll rest secure in the fact that you effectively showed them the love of Christ.
4.) Use air-quotes every time you call them a “Christian.” Believers from other denominations will know that you truly count them as brothers and sisters in Christ when you give a big, sarcastic eye-roll and exaggerated air quotes every time you use the word “Christian” to refer to them or their denomination. Like so: “Hey Carl, I’m really glad you’re a ‘Christian’ [dramatic air-quotes here] too!”
5.) Intentionally misunderstand all their theological statements. If a believer from a different tradition tweets something like, “Praise the Lord for sending His Son to die for us!” make sure you immediately reply with a series of three or four dozen tweets demonstrating how their statement is suspect and doesn’t even display a remotely biblical understanding of the gospel.
6.) Make sure you loudly proclaim how much better you are. Finally, make sure all your conversations are laced with a refined sense of superiority. If you’re ready for the more advanced form of this technique, just start shouting at the other Christian’s face at the top of your lungs, screaming about how much more worthy of Christ’s love your denominational background is than theirs, and how dumb they are for believing whatever nonsense they believe. You’ll be bosom buddies in no time!
Except for the ADDED words printed in Italics.
And who gets to DEFINE what is 'corrupted'?
It’s amazing that so many of the Protestant denominations arose when the ONLY translation they had was the KJV.
That’s what I asked a Mormon once. He was like a deer in the headlights. He had no clue.
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