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To: Cronos

Yeah, that ‘crazy’ guy went and declared Mark 13:23 take ye heed, behold I have foretold you all things.. this was long before any jot or tittle of the so called New Testament got placed on animal skins or plant fibers..

I mean really who did He think He was… At the rate the church is going they will claim the devil is really Jesus!


451 posted on 09/14/2023 10:24:08 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Psalm 2. Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?)
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To: Just mythoughts
Why are you calling "Tell" a "crazy guy"?

Mark 13 talks about Jesus prophesying the destruction of Herod's temple in 70 AD.

1. As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!”

2 “Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

... 9 “You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them.

...22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

...26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

All of these are describing the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD

note 9 "“You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues."

Christians aren't - and are hardly likely to be "flogged in synagogues" today or in the future.

What Jesus was talking about was when the Jesus-movement was still a sect of 2nd temple Judaism -- while 2nd temple Judaism still existed

The false Messiahs is a clear description of the false "Messiahs" i.e. "anointed ones" i.e. "Jewish warlords who would free them from the outsiders" came - before 70 AD

And the coming in clouds --> I'll describe that in the next post

455 posted on 09/14/2023 10:44:44 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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To: Just mythoughts
The Olivet discourse then talks about the 8 signs that Jesus said would lead to the Temple's destruction that were important for the Apostles to recognize
  1. Sign 1: false messiahs - Matt 24:4-5 -- Up to 70 AD there were several supposed messiahs in Judea who led armies against the legions. They were killed with their followers. At the time of the Jewish captivity, there were many leaders who declared themselves to be Christs (Messiahs), so that while the Romans were actually besiegin them, there were three factions within - and Joseph mentions them as "Imposters and deceivers persuaded the multitude to follow them into the wilderness, and pretended that they would exhibit manifest wonders and signs that should be performed by the providence of God. And many that were prevailed on by them suffered the punishments of their folly""

  2. Sign 2: Wars You will hear of wars and rumors of wars Matt 24:6 - there was civil war in Rome itself

  3. Sign 3: famines - during the war the Jews in Jerusalem underwent a severe famine - St. Paul wrote about it in his letter to the Corinthians (2 Cor 8)

  4. Sign 4: earthquakes erupted frequently - the city of Colossae was destroyed in an earthquake in the 50s. And Pompeii had one in 63 AD (the same Pompeii that was destroyed by volcano in 79 AD)

  5. sign 5: persecution - Matthew 24:9 - Nero's persecution killed Peter and Paul

  6. Sign 6: Apostasy - Matthew 24:10-12 - this is reflected in Revelations 2 about the Nicolaitians

  7. Sign 7 - the gospel worldwide. What did Paul say in Rom 1:8? First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world and in Col 1:5-6 First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world in Paul's mind there was no doubt that the gospel had gone out into the whole world Clement wrote in 73 AD that Peter and Paul had been martyred, but not before they "taught righteousness to the whole world, and they came to the extreme limit of the west" -- the word used for "world" is oikoumene - which specifically means the civilized world i.e. the Roman Empire - the Olivet discourse does not use the world "Kosmos" that designates the entire earth.

    Kosmos in Matt 24:21 From the beginning of the world (kosmos) until now"

  8. Sign 8: Daniel's desolating sacrilege. Matt 24:15-19. Note that the Sanhedrin believed that this had been fulfilled in 167 BC, but that did not meet Daniel's prophecy of 3.5 years

    Jesus then mentions in 24:21 the Great Tribulation - which is for the Jesus-movement Jews.

    There has never been, nor will there ever be anything rivaling it. The Church was close to being smothered in its cradle if Nero continued and the Jerusalem Christians had not escaped to Pella - this was a tiny community, primarily Jewish and was attacked by both the Roman authorities AND the Jewish authorities. That WAS the great tribulation

THEN, in Matt 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved - This is apocalyptic language exactly referring to Isaiah 13:10-13 The stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising and the moon will not shed its light... I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place" - Jesus is foretelling the overthrow of nero and the Sanhedrin. He draws a parallel between the shaking of Babylon and the shaking of Jerusalem (and that's the basis of John's vision in the book of revelations)

This is also reflected in Haggai 2:6-7 Thus says that Lord of hosts: Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land; and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the Lord of hosts

This splendor is Christ and the house is the Church. The Sanhedrin was uprooted forever, never to be validly re-established again.

==================
I'm finally answering your question, apologies for the background lenght
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Now to Matt 24:30-31 Then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds on heaven with power and great glory; and He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other -- and on reading this with Daniel we have

================

Mara Bar Searpion, a pagan Syrian Gentile who wrote a letter to hsi son around 73 AD wrote "What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged"

Only God could make the type of prediction that Jesus made and have it come true. Consider how while Jerusalem was still standing,Jesus foretold what would befall it from the hand of hte empire. At that time there were no armies around Jerusalem encompassing and besieging it for the siege began three decades after His death

Finally the fig tree - "you know that He is near, at the very gates." - the generation of the fig tree was the people who lived to see the destruction in 70 AD

That is why the Gospel according to john does not include the Olivet discourse because revelations was written before 67 AD but the gospel according to john was written after 70 AD

456 posted on 09/14/2023 10:46:48 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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To: Just mythoughts; wita
At the rate the church is going they will claim the devil is really Jesus!

There's one church (and probably many of the splinter sects that came out of it) that teaches the devil is Jesus' brother.

472 posted on 09/14/2023 6:06:35 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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