Posted on 06/22/2023 3:01:47 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
One of the issues being promoted by a rising belief system of theology is that a pre-tribulation Rapture of the church is not Bible truth. It is claimed that such doctrine is a fabrication of one John Nelson Darby of Ireland (1800-1882).
Therefore, we are being taught that any such references to the Rapture are just garbage and without merit. Any Scripture that makes such a reference is said to be presenting aspects of Christ’s Second Coming. Much has been written and published on the Internet, easy to find if one wants to know about this issue.
Darby was apparently an active and well-known figure in the mid-1800 theological circles, having supported Calvin’s views. He wrote favorably of Calvin’s analysis of Election and Predestination. At a conference in 1832, he presented his views on the pre-tribulation Rapture doctrines. His biographer, William Kelly (1821-1906), wrote of Darby, “A saint more true to Christ’s name and word I never knew or heard of.”
But well before Darby, there was a strong belief in a pre-tribulation Rapture. After the times of the Apostles, there were writers expounding belief in the “imminence” of Christ’s return, which finds its basis in a pre-tribulation Rapture—that is, “nothing stands in the way of His coming at any time.” This, of course, is still held by many today, although we know that Jesus never made a promise or prophecy that He did not intend to fulfill.
Clement of Rome (35-101) and Ignatius of Antioch (died 110) were of this frame of mind. Apparently, Irenaeus of Lyon (120-202) was a pre-tribulation believer, and he was a disciple of Polycarp, a disciple of the Apostle John. He wrote of his views in that arena of thought in his book, Against Heresies.
So we see briefly a few of the many examples of the belief that a pre-tribulation Rapture is biblically true and has been articulated steadily well before John Darby is said to have “invented” that doctrine.
Many books and articles are being written today that attempt to explain the Scriptures, and believers rush to find out what this new author has to say. But wait a minute! What does the Bible say about it? (And here I am, writing an article to explain what the Bible says!)
Nevertheless, tracing the whole counsel of God on an issue is bound to produce God’s viewpoint, given the awesome truth of Proverbs 9:10b. “And knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.”
No wonder Jude, the brother of James and half-brother of Jesus, was brought to urge believers to “earnestly contend for the faith that was ONCE FOR ALL given to the saints.” (Capitals used for emphasis.) “Contend” means to fight for it, and “once for all” means there are to be no changes to it, and it is for everyone. Jude wrote this possibly just before the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
So, you ask, where did the Rapture doctrine begin?
An example of it was in the experience of Enoch, the early man of faith who “walked with God and he was not, for God took him” (Genesis 5:24). Then, there is the taking away of Elijah in a blazing chariot from heaven, as told in 2 kings 2:1-3.
But the actual workings of the Rapture are first introduced by Jesus Christ and told in John 11:25-26. It is the time of the death of Lazarus, and his sisters were weeping over his death. Martha said to Jesus, “Had You been here, my brother would not have died.”
Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again” (John 11:23). Martha replied, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” (Here, she changed the context from the present to the future time of Lazarus’ resurrection.)
And Jesus makes this statement of that future event, later called the Rapture: “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die” (John 11:25-26).
Lay these two verses beside 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17, and you have an exact comparison: “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”
Can you see how these Scriptures fit together to complement each other? They come under the broad classification of “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God” and its inclusive instruction. Both letters to the Thessalonians deal extensively with this undeniable event called the Rapture.
One of the troubling expectations of many Christians is that Jesus will return surprisingly at any time, even this afternoon, because He is said to come “like a thief in the night,” that is, unsuspectedly. Paul, though, told the Thessalonians, “But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day….” (1 Thessalonians 5:4-5a).
Yet, we do not know the day nor the hour of His coming, specifically. The meaning of this is answered as we look at the next revelation in the Scriptures regarding the ingathering of the Rapture.
Why did God have seven special festivals or feasts set up on the Jewish calendar? They were not feasts that came out of Israel’s historical activities. They were given to Moses to be placed on their calendar every year in the future. They are laid out in Leviticus 23 according to their agricultural seasons that have to do with the times of harvest. (When I first realized the significance of these feasts, I wrote and posted an article entitled “Amazing Truths Hidden in Israel’s Feasts.” It bears repeating, at least simplified, for its importance to this article’s conclusion.)
The first one was the Passover festival, celebrating the time of Israel’s escape from Egypt’s bondage. At least, it was a reminder of that great work of God in their midst. But the feasts all were called “convocations” or rehearsals for future events. It turns out that they celebrate seven high-level events of the then-coming Christian era!
The first three, beginning with Passover about the middle of March in the Gentile calendar. They are the death, burial and resurrection of Christ where He, the Passover Lamb, was slain. Here He becomes the “first fruits of the resurrection.” The Scriptures are careful to establish that title for Jesus, as noted in Matthew 27:53. Jesus had died, an earthquake had shaken the city, and the vail in the temple’s Holy Place was torn from top to bottom: “And coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.”
The second feast, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, depicts the death and burial of Jesus in the tomb for three nights and three days “in the belly of the earth.” We are told of what He did there, in the spirit, “taking captivity captive” (closing Paradise into heaven?) and “speaking to the spirits in prison” (Ephesians 4:8-9, Psalm 68:18, and 1 Peter 3:19 while His body lay in the tomb for those three nights and days.)
The third festival, the Feast of First Fruits, celebrates His resurrection, possibly twelve hours into that third night and day, early on Sunday morning, the first day of the week. Thus, the Lord of the Sabbath brought with Himself that Day of honor and delight in the Lord to the first day of the week and no longer on the last day of the week.
In the agricultural context, these first three feasts correspond to the sowing of the seed for eventual harvest, as John 12:24 depicts it: “Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.”
Fifty days later, a gigantic change took place, and the Spirit of God came upon the small band of believers who were waiting, as told to do, and the power of God was displayed in them. Called the Feast of Weeks, the Early Harvest, it corresponded to the barley harvest time for the farmers. At the preaching of Peter, three thousand became new believers from among those of many tongues who had come to celebrate the festival. It is called Pentecost since that time, a clear and definite Christian era event being celebrated by the Jews, not knowing what they really are identifying.
The fifth feast, called the Feast of Trumpets or Rosh Hashana, comes in the fall of the year, depicting the final harvest of the season. It is called the “ingathering” in 2 Thessalonians 2:1, and every description of it seems to shout “Rapture.” One must ask whether or not God will fulfill this event in the order it is placed on the calendar or at some isolated place and time elsewhere. My understanding of the nature of God is that He will not be inconsistent with His formatted plan as depicted for all these centuries.
The tenth day after Rosh Hashana is the date of the Feast of Atonement when the “abomination of desolation” of Daniel’s prophecy occurs. The Jews discover their true Messiah is Jesus Christ, not this one who has befriended them with a seven-year peace covenant and permission to rebuild their temple (Daniel 9:27).
John writes of their discovery being prophesied in John 19:37: “And again another Scripture says, ‘They shall look on Him whom they pierced.'” He was referring to Zechariah 12:10, thus confirming that event’s expected fulfillment.
That evil one cancels their offerings and temple sacrifices and declares himself God, demanding all to worship him as God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).
Then, the fifth day after that sixth festival, the Feast of Tabernacles occurs on the calendar, also called the Feast of Booths, to illustrate the coming of the Lord to the earth to establish His Millennial Kingdom based in Jerusalem, the city of Zion. Zechariah 14:4 tells us about His feet being planted on the Mount of Olives “on that day,” and the Mount is split into two sides with a valley in between.
It will be a very dramatic event and not anything like that return of Jesus described by the two angels in Acts 1:11: “This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Therefore, “as we see the Day approaching, we who believe and proclaim the whole counsel of God say, “even so, Lord Jesus, come quickly” and put to rest those nay-sayers who so self-confidently twist the Scriptures to fit their truthless theories.
Large passages of Scripture are disregarded as meaningless, along with prophecies of the last days in their design for the end times, but God does not follow their plan. You can count on His sovereignty by His Word.
The “ingathering” of the final harvest of the church age so fits the annual timing of the seasons of the year, is it likely that God would not fulfill that high point of the church age at that time and put it somewhere else of an insignificant location? What, then, is the fulfillment of that fifth Feast of Trumpets? Why have the Jews been celebrating it for centuries if it has no significance?
Paul admonished Timothy to “study to show yourself approved of God, a workman not ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15). We, here in the 21st century, will do well to follow that directive, for we know that God is, and who He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him (Hebrews 11:6).
Well, this post of yours (Post #8) indicates that you have no clue about the nature of the Tribulation.
>>>Well, this post of yours (Post #8) indicates that you have no clue about the nature of the Tribulation.>>>
yeah, tell Christians who were burned to death, starved to death, beaten to death, fed to lions.....talk to them about a “tribulation”. Sounds like you have no idea what a tribulation is.
They got the crown with the cross. You want the crown without the cross. They weren’t wimps looking for a easy way out. Good luck with that.
The word rapture itself is nowhere to be found in the Bible, but the promise behind it is.
Indeed. I fail to see how much clearer Paul and the Holy Spirit could have made it than how the event is described in Scripture.
This whole nonsense of *secret rapture* is a recent invention and used in derision to mock belief in the rapture.
NOBODY ever claimed there would be a secret rapture until the mockers and scoffers came along and accused people of it in a bid to discredit the whole concept.
There are people who deliberately conflate common and proper nouns in a bid to try to convince others of their point of view.
They deliberately downplay the difference between just the kinds of troubles and hardships we face here on earth as part of living in a fallen and corrupted world, and the time period known as The Great Tribulation.
It does not, however, invalidate or discredit the theology of the rapture and the Tribulation.
There is a super-sized difference between a tribulation someone suffers here on an individual or group basis, and The Tribulation explained in Revelation--which is what I mentioned.
No one is denigrating others' tribulations. I've suffered through a few myself. However, those tribulations (lower-case "t") were caused by Satan with God's permission. The Great Tribulation is God's Wrath poured out on the world by God Himself. He will be the active agent in those times.
*That* is the Tribulation that the Church will be spared. God does not deal suffering on His own people. He may allow some, with limitations (See the book of Job), but He does not actively *cause* it on His people.
“The Great Tribulation is God’s Wrath poured out on the world by God Himself. He will be the active agent in those times.”
Is the severe persecution of followers of Jesus an example of God’s wrath?
Matthew 24:9 NKJV
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
Revelation 6:9-11 NKJV
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
The wrath of God is only identified in Revelation AFTER the 6th seal:
Revelation 6:16-17 NKJV
And said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
In the end, it doesn’t matter to me if it is pre, mid, or post Great Tribulation.
I know my eternal home is with my Savior.
The only concern I do have is that the faith of those whose faith in Christ is premised on a deliverance from tribulation or the Great Tribulation may fail when tested, and they fall away from faith. (Of course, if they do fall away, did they ever have salvation anyway? I don’t know…)
In the end, it doesn’t matter to me if it is pre, mid, or post Great Tribulation.
I know my eternal home is with my Savior.
The only concern I do have is that the faith of those whose faith in Christ is premised on a deliverance from tribulation or the Great Tribulation may fail when tested, and they fall away from faith. (Of course, if they do fall away, did they ever have salvation anyway? I don’t know…)
My church covered this in their doctrines class While it is important for an individual to have an idea about it and what they believe and be able to defend it (and hopefully explain but also learn from other believers), it is not held up there with the major tenants of our faith. The various pastors at the church hold various views, and they all explained and discussed their views in front of the congregation.
No verbal arguments or fist fights ensued.
I’m a pan-dispensationalist.
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It will all pan out in the end.
“God didn’t rapture anyone out of the time of trouble....he went through it with them.”
Reading through all of the terrible events described in Revelation is terrifying. But the book is also very clear that God is there with them/us, and is victorious in the end which brings me comfort. (Is already victorious?)
>>>>Reading through all of the terrible events described in Revelation is terrifying. But the book is also very clear that God is there with them/us, and is victorious in the end which brings me comfort. (Is already victorious?)>>>
Amen brother. In Mark 13:9, Jesus said we will be beaten in “synagogues” (that’s just church) and brought before rulers and councils for his name’s sake. Interesting he puts church and state together persecuting God’s people in the end.
Anti Christ is a religious superpower a counterfeit and she leads the world into apostasy including her daughters. Things will be so catastrophically awful, earthquakes leveling cities, pandemics killing millions, wars, economic ruin, crime, ......then like people in a plane going down, everybody cries out to God for help. Masses who never sought truth before so they are deluded.
Laws will be passed to enforce even religious legislation. The 2 beasts of Revelation 13, the is religious, the 2nd is political who causes the world to worship the first beast.
Their is war declared on those who do not go along.....Revelation 12:17 tells us wrath at those “who keep the commandments of God.”
God’s seal is the Sabbath for it bears his name, title, and territory.......”Lord God Creator of heaven and earth.” No different than a presidential seal.....”Joe Biden, President, United States” (just an example I detest Biden)
This is why the Sabbath is an end time most controverted issue. The day a person starts keeping the Sabbath, as a Christian, is the day he becomes hated, attacked, ridiculed. And they all join, across all denominations. So when they don’t go along with “her”.....and her mark of authority.....they are blamed.
As I say.....”you think you hate the Sabbath now, wait till the real fireworks start.”
There is no other reasonable explanation for mark of the beast anti Christ, etc. The visison of Daniel tell us exactly where Anti Christ comes from....Rome. Daniel 2 and Daniel 7. Even the forward to the original King James Bible identifies the “man of sin” as the Popish person.
It’s all coming together. The world is going to Rome and she is receiving them. Her wound has healed and God is calling his people out of that system and any one who reaches out to her.
My friend just accepted the Sabbath...he told me he could not believe how it all adds up after studying Daniel and Revelation. Amen.....Lord come quickly.
But for us..many will die and we don’t care. We will soon be going home to be with Jesus forever.
Besides claiming it’s wimpy, which is not Biblical, can you find in scripture where it says what you believe? ( John was not a wimp). Simply line and verse, that doesn’t contradict what Jesus said? The only way through this is to study scripture with scripture.
Be careful, you are stating feelings over and over again and that’s something the devil uses. Look how many people “feel” they are the wrong sex and so call themselves trans. Feelings can also indicate something is wrong as well but your use of “wimp” cries vanity and that’s not Biblical. Even the Apostles questioned when they learned of John’s fate.
In RC Sproul’s book, Knowing Scripture, it does says to be careful with predictive prophecy because people can interpret it wrong because they are not using the correct translated word. So we must used scripture with scripture. I want to be cautious but I also want to be alert as well. These times are rapidly changing and becoming more and more deadly and I worry for so many young children. What I see in South Africa and China is no doubt coming here. But I also know God is in control. Some will suffer, some will escape. I have no clue about my fate or my family’s so I pray often for protection.
Let us pray for discernment when dealing with prophetic scripture and pursue the truth, with love, in Christ.
——>There is no other reasonable explanation for mark of the beast anti Christ, etc. The visison of Daniel tell us exactly where Anti Christ comes from....Rome.
THEY WILL NOT LISTEN! Daniel is very clear that the 4th beast is PAGAN ROME, and the Little Horn Antichrist, COMES OUT OF PAGAN ROME. Literally every Protestant Reformer knew it, and many were tortured and murdered for that belief.
This whole nonsense of *secret rapture* is a recent invention and used in derision to mock belief in the rapture.
NOBODY ever claimed there would be a secret rapture until the mockers and scoffers came along and accused people of it in a bid to discredit the whole concept.
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a SECRET RAPTURE of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether anyone ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin.
The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it Taught in Scripture? And Why? S. P. Tregelles. March 17, 1864.
§ VIII. (p.23.)
“But there is a very different theory of the coming of the Lord as the hope of His Church, which many teach, and which many more receive, as though it were unquestioned truth.”
“It is said that there shall be a SECRET coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; that at this SECRET coming His believing people who are in their graves shall be raised, and the living changed, and that a secret rapture of the Church shall then take place; that this SECRET coming and SECRET rapture are our hope, and not the manifested appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven.”
“It is said that after this SECRET removal of the Church, the full manifestation of human evil, for some years at least, will take place, during which time shall be the display of the power of Antichrist,—the persecutions foretold in the Revelation, the extreme trials of Israel, the unequaled tribulation,—and that the end of this will be the manifestation of Christ visibly coming with His Church in the cloud of glory.”
“This is the doctrine of the SECRET coming of Christ, which many now preach as if it were the acknowledged truth of God, instead of its being (as is really the case) that which at every point would require proof from Scripture.”
“But not only is this doctrine of the coming of Christ not taught in the Word of God, but if, in what has been previously said, there is any point of truth, then this whole system stands in distinct contradiction of what the Scripture reveals.”
>>>>THEY WILL NOT LISTEN! Daniel is very clear that the 4th beast is PAGAN ROME, and the Little Horn Antichrist, COMES OUT OF PAGAN ROME. Literally every Protestant Reformer knew it, and many were tortured and murdered for that belief.>>>>
Yes, sadly it’s all new theology. They don’t even realize where it came from. Preterism and Futurism both have Jesuit influence because they know Rome is the little horn so they invented this theology of dispensationalism. Everything in the old testament is Jewish and law, the new is grace and Jesus.
As if Jesus wasn’t around in the old testament and God had 2 says to save people. No protestant reformer ever taught their nonsense. It comes from the scofield Darby Bible and all the TV and evangelicals have bought it.
That’s why they had to get rid of the ten commandments because of the Sabbath. So when it comes to the sabbath.hey, no law, we are under grace. But when it comes abortion or homosexuality or whatever their favorite sin to pick on people about......suddenly they have laws again.
I’m beginning to think they hate the Sabbath because it exposes them and takes away the fun they have of judgeing and condemning others when they close their eyes to the holy day.
If I was gay, I’d be pointing at them right back.....hypocrits..you don’t even keep the 4th commandment so get outta here with your hypocrisy.
The Sabbath is a very controverted issue and will be to the end because the final showdown is over God’s law. and God will not allow his people to be persecuted after he’s had enough of it.and they do hate the Sabbath now. Imagine when the real fireworks start. There will be unity by them... at the expense of truth. Buckle up...it’s gonna get rough.
Rome hates the Sabbath....it exposes her. And they hate it too...and unity is coming. It’s already coming....and Sunday is common to both in the end.
You are a hoot…. Rome is the center of evil, yet you signed up to FR to support a Roman Catholic for president.. cray, cray, even on a good day.. Now go keep your day holy.
The Sabbath is a very controverted issue and will be to the end because the final showdown is over God’s law. and God will not allow his people to be persecuted after he’s had enough of it.and they do hate the Sabbath now. Imagine when the real fireworks start. There will be unity by them... at the expense of truth. Buckle up...it’s gonna get rough.
Rome hates the Sabbath....it exposes her. And they hate it too...and unity is coming. It’s already coming....and Sunday is common to both in the end.
Which means that they hate God’s authority.
>>>Which means that they hate God’s authority.>>>
They are deceived and it’s sad how much they detest the Sabbath. It’s a blessing to mankind. They make it out to be a yoke of bondage which is exactly what the pharisees did! That’s the irony.
And being so shallow, they think it’s about a day. Heck, the Sabbath could have been tuesday if God wanted it to be. It’s nto about a day.....it’s about who my authority is. My authority is the Lord of the Sabbath....not a church council. Amen.......and Sabbath blessings!
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