Posted on 06/20/2023 4:00:14 PM PDT by vespa300
“Jesus kept the Sabbath. Is He your leader and example or not?”
I’ll go by scripture rather than your made-up doctrine.
Jesus was circumcised, too. Why does Paul teach that Gentiles do not need to be circumcised?
“Ceremonial laws were abolished on the cross. You need to know the difference between temporary and permanent.”
But circumcision came centuries before the law of Moses. I don’t see the distinction in the Abrahamic Covenant. Perhaps you can point it out for me.
Genesis 17:1-14 NKJV
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” And God said to Abraham: “As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant. He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”
When I read “My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant,” circumcision sounds more like something permanent than temporary. And this covenant came centuries before the “ceremonial laws” of Moses. Jesus pointed out that circumcision took precedence over the Sabbath.
So why are Gentile believers only required to be circumcised in heart and not in their flesh? Aren’t we Abraham’s seed?
You’ve been told why a hundred times. And you didn’t answer the question. If Jesus is your leader why not follow His example of how to live in accordance with Gods wishes?
Why bring circumcision into the discussion? It has nothing to do with nothing at this point. If you want to get circumcised, knock yourself out. It has nothing to do with salvation.
We were all Christians before there were Catholics. Catholics began to adopt things from the pagan religious cultures around them and to accept traditions beyond the Bible.
I’ve been both Catholic and Protestant. A trip to Vatican City a couple of weeks ago reminded me how glad I am to be protestant.
Quote
God’s holy day sanctified at creation for man is never going to change...
...
And that isn’t Rome’s Saturday, vespa..
Rome’s week gets destroyed with the first chapter of Genesis..
Sorry, but your need to control others will not dictate my actions. When people turn this forum into their personal soap box to engage in a one-sided conversation, I just ignore their demands.
>>>And that isn’t Rome’s Saturday, vespa..
Rome’s week gets destroyed with the first chapter of Genesis..>>>
Well, I think I agree with you. God the creator, that’s Jesus, hallowed the 7th day, at creation. He “made” the Sabbath. It’s a noun. It’s a thing. It’s holy. Its hallowed. It’s a sanctuary time. A window to eternity. The only commandment with Gospel and the seal of God......bearing his name, title, and territory. Lord, God creator of heaven and earth.
It reveals his authority to give the law in the first place! Like a badge on a cop.
And a church thinks it can just whoosh is away? Change it. at least they are honest in stating she did it....not the Bible. Evangelicals of today are in some serious denial. Trying to twist, turn, bend, and even reinvent history.
Jesus says NOT ONE JOT or TITTLE.
“Why bring circumcision into the discussion?”
Because Jesus did. But you’d know that already if you had the slightest respect for the scriptures.
Jesus made His case for when the Sabbath rest can be ignored by using circumcision as an example. He was circumcised on the 8th day, as the Law commands. This command supersedes the Sabbath.
The heretics who try to force Gentiles into following the sign-Sabbath given to Israel don’t like to talk about circumcision because what the Bible says about it demolishes the heresy and exposes its many lies.
There are MANY cases when the Sabbath rest can be ignored and people are innocent for doing so. This is because it is the one commandment of the 10 that was given as a sign of the covenant with Israel. If it was a universal, moral law, it could never be ignored. And it especially could not be ignored to keep some lesser ceremonial law (if that’s all circumcision is). A person could not, for example, claim an exemption from stealing because of the need to perform a circumcision.
OUCH!
I can report at least seven churches...
Uh; this??
1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty[a]; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. 2 Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.”
3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram[b]; your name will be Abraham,[c] for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”
9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
GRRRrrr...
If only I had read just a little bit more in this thread...
I’ve been both Catholic and Protestant... glad I am ... protestant.
or,
——>Why does Paul teach that Gentiles do not need to be circumcised?
Because it was a covenant that preincarnate Christ made with Abraham and his LITERAL SEED, the Jewish nation, which no longer exists. They blew it. Done. Finished.
1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commandments is what counts.
Here’s a good discussion:
https://bibleask.org/circumcision-necessary-new-testament/
——>Jesus made His case for when the Sabbath rest can be ignored by using circumcision as an example. He was circumcised on the 8th day, as the Law commands. This command supersedes the Sabbath.
Absolutely ridiculous
——>If it was a universal, moral law, it could never be ignored.
Yet, it is, as is the rest of God’s 10 commandment law. And, that is EXACTLY why it will be the MOTB test at the end of time. Revelation 14 lays it out.
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” (direct question)
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (direct answer)
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
——>It has nothing to do with nothing at this point.
Exactly. But, God’s holy 10 commandment law is a totally different story.
1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commandments is what counts.
Is it even possible to misunderstand this text? No, it is not. Yet Unlearner does.
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