Posted on 04/19/2023 5:59:00 AM PDT by Cronos
In 1830 Darby met fifteen-year-old Mararet MacDonald, who claimed to have had a private revelation of a secret rapture that would occur shortly
flash alert -- the "secret rapture" didn't occur in 1830 nor in 1870 nor in 1914 nor in 2012 -- but the gullible who persist in believing in the 19thc century creation of secret pre-Trib rapture keep falling for itLet's go through all of the hilarious rapture fails
Net - net, this fake 19th century philosophy has been shown to be continuously failing and still rapturists follow it - adding on a few more years each time they fail
When the Roman Empire begins to be consumed by the sword, the coming of the Evil One is at hand. It is necessary that the world come to an end at the completion of the Roman Empire.This is definitely not about modern times, nor about the pre-tribulation rapture
In those days two brothers will come to the Roman Empire who will rule with one mind; but because one will surpass the other, there will be a schism between them. And so the Adversary will be loosed and will stir up hatred between the Persian and Roman empires. In those days many will rise up against Rome; the Jewish people will be her adversaries
Spot on! (my .01 ... half sense)
“I felt great pressure to force my kids to say the sinner’s prayer, because it was their ticket to heaven,” she said..”
Folks like this have little understanding of what they THINK they believe.
Saying “abracadabra” is NOT what the Lord expects us to do. Anyone can simply repeat words…
Teach your children to trust Him, to honor Him, to live FOR Him; He’s not a lucky rabbits’ foot, He is a being who created us individually and loves and cares for us - individually.
This short dress-rehearsal, life here on earth is a snap of the fingers compared with eternity. And eternity will not be spent lounging on a cloud, playing a golden harp..
Think of the most fulfilling life you can imagine… multiply it by a hundred trillion and you MAY get a fuzzy picture…
Actually the state of Israel was not “established in one day”
There was a paramilitary campaign carried out by Jewish underground groups against British rule in Mandatory Palestine from 1944 to 1948.
In April 1948 Britain declared that it would leave Palestine by 1 August 1948, later changed to 14th May 1948.
Then on 15 May 1948 Israel got its independence day.
hardly “in one day” — and especially if you count the time of Aliyah which started in the 1800s
It’s clearly garbage written an posted by a Preterist who ignores Scripture.
No different than a new gospel written by a demon.
But the UN officially established the State of Israel. In one day.
True Christians believe nothing is impossible with Jesus.
Others make up their own narrative to fit their religion.
Also note that after the utter destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Simon Bar Kokhba took the title Nasi Israel and ruled over an entity named Israel that was virtually independent for over two and a half years (from 133 to 136 AD).
The Jewish sage Rabbi Akiva, who was the spiritual leader of the revolt identified Simon Bar Kosiba as the Jewish messiah, and gave him the surname “Bar Kokhba” meaning “Son of a Star” in the Aramaic language, from the Star Prophecy verse from Numbers 24:17: “There shall come a star out of Jacob”.
It is a serious topic.
One that we seem to have had derailed by holding on the pre-tribulation rapture philosophy instead of what Jesus actually taught
“But the UN officially established the State of Israel. In one day.”
But it wasn’t done in 1 day - it was from April to 15 May
Following the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, the nation (the vast majority of the Jewish people) were scattered to the four corners to the Earth. You can hardly call what was left a state of Isreal. Only after Isreal became a State in 1948 were Jews called back in mass.
Sure signs of the times would consist of falling away of the Church, in other words the loss of a belief system where rampant disbelief in God, the Bible and embracing every type of degenerative lifestyle humanly possible. Examples would be homosexuality as a norm, Transwhateverism, child molestation as a social norm, mass confusion of the masses, embracing Satanism. Next Social breakdown where the lawless rule and good punished, corruption at ever level of Government. Technology ushering in the Anti-Christ, Wars, disease, Earthquakes, Israel preparing the 3rd Temple....
You keep stuff like this in reserve to drop when these threads show up, don’t you. Congrats. You win!
Sorry dude, but the secret rapture comes from “that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God”. Anyone who refuses to explain clear contradictions to the PTR theory has no business posting anything about it. It is clearly a false doctrine.
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a SECRET RAPTURE of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether anyone ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin. p. 26.”
The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it Taught in Scripture? And Why? S. P. Tregelles. March 17, 1864.
****Tregelles was an EYEWITNESS to the event, when Margaret MacDonald made those utterances, and first time EVER hearing about the PTR theory.
§ VIII. (p.23.)
“But there is a very different theory of the coming of the Lord as the hope of His Church, which many teach, and which many more receive, as though it were unquestioned truth.”
“It is said that there shall be a SECRET coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; that at this SECRET coming His believing people who are in their graves shall be raised, and the living changed, and that a secret rapture of the Church shall then take place; that this SECRET coming and SECRET rapture are our hope, and not the manifested appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven.”
“It is said that after this SECRET removal of the Church, the full manifestation of human evil, for some years at least, will take place, during which time shall be the display of the power of Antichrist,—the persecutions foretold in the Revelation, the extreme trials of Israel, the unequaled tribulation,—and that the end of this will be the manifestation of Christ visibly coming with His Church in the cloud of glory.”
“This is the doctrine of the SECRET coming of Christ, which many now preach as if it were the acknowledged truth of God, instead of its being (as is really the case) that which at every point would require proof from Scripture.”
“But not only is this doctrine of the coming of Christ not taught in the Word of God, but if, in what has been previously said, there is any point of truth, then this whole system stands in distinct contradiction of what the Scripture reveals.”
A explosion of evil around the World where Good is Bad and Bad is Good..Increase of persecution of Christians even in the United States.
—> It’s clearly garbage written a posted by a Preterist who ignores Scripture.
And posted by another!
See you in the air to meet the Lord and be with Him forever - before His judgement is poured out on earth.
[From an Orthodox site] First of all, the word ‘rapture’ is not even included in the Scriptures, and was unknown as a theology or a doctrine by the Church for well over 1,800 years.Where then did it come from and when did it begin?
Its origins are in the counter reformation move of Papal Rome in the 16th century after Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the church door in Wittenberg on October 31, 1517. It is less well known that Pope Leo X authorized three Jesuit Priests to reinterpret Daniel’s 70 weeks of prophecy; the Book of Revelation; and Ezekiel. The goal of these jesuits was to take the heat of the reformation away from the papacy and the protestant association of the Anti-Christ with the pope. The three Jesuits were:
The doctrine – called futurism – which would later become ‘the rapture’ originated and was submitted by Francisco Ribera in 1585. His Apocalyptic Commentary was on the grand points of Babylon and the Anti-Christ which are now known as the rapture doctrine. Ribera’s published work was called “In Sacram Beati Ionnis Apostoli & Evangelistate Apocoalypsin Commentari” (Lugduni 1593). You can still find these writings in the Bodleian Library in Oxford England. The work was considered flawed and faulty, and was ordered buried in the Church archives, out of sight, by the pope himself.
Unfortunately, over 200 years later a librarian to the Archbishop of Canterbury by the name of S. R. Maitland (1792-1866) was appointed to be the Keeper of the Manuscripts at Lambeth Palace, in London, England. In his duties, Dr. Maitland came across Francisco Ribera’s rapture theology and he had it republished for the sake of interest in early 1826 with follow ups in 1829 and 1830.
This was spurred along with the Oxford Tracts that were published in 1833 to try and deprotestantize the Church of England. John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) (A Leader of the Plymouth Brethren) became a follower of S.R. Maitland’s prophetic endeavors and was persuaded. Darby’s influence in the seminaries of Europe combined with 7 tours of the United States changed the eschatological view of the ministers which had the trickle down effect into the churches.
Another contributor to the rapture ideology came through Emmanuel Lacunza (1731-1801), a Jesuit priest from Chile. Lacunza wrote the “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty” around 1791. It was later published in London in 1827. The book was attributed to a fictitious author name Rabbi Juan Josafat BenEzra. - http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/46653.htm
Francisco Ribera, an Augustinian amillennialist, and confessor and ultimate biographer of Teresa of Aliva. Ribera proposed that only the introductory chapters of "Revelation referred to ancient Rome, and the remainder referred to a literal 3.5 years at the end of time.
He also thought that the antichrist, as a single individual, would:
Luis del Alcázar, a Spanish Jesuit theologian. His interpretation of the Apocalypse was then followed by Robert Bellarmine (who pushed the reign of antichrist into a future period of 3 1/2 literal years.) And the Spanish Dominican Thomas Malvenda. Google Books
Manuel De Lacunza (1731–1801), a Jesuit from Chile, was also an advocate of Futurism.
In addition, Rome denies premillennialism that the Second coming will occur before a literal thousand-year reign of Christ from Jerusalem upon the earth, though ancients as Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Methodius, Commodianus, and Lactanitus were premillennialists. While Christians better than me can disagree, I do not subscribe to the pretrib rapture belief, seeing it more warranted that the Lord keeps the faithful through the Tribulation, to meet the Lord in the air at the resurrection at the end of the Trib. and go with him to the battle of Armageddon, and stand at the judgment seat of Christ, (1 Co. 3:8ff) and reign with Him for a 1,000 years, and sit in judgment at final judgment
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation [I think that sees "all these things"] shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Matthew 24:29-35)
And the Bible most apparently teaches that the resurrected/raptured saints (who have part in the first resurrection - the resurrection of life:” Jn. 5:29a; Rev. 20:6,7,14) will return with the LORD from Heaven to execute judgment, and to reign with with Him for the 1,000 year millennium. (Rv. 2:27; 19:15; 20:6 - and during which the Jews shall be tested). And afterwards believers shall be judges at the final (great white throne) judgment, even judging angels (1 Co. 6:3):
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him." (Jude 1:14-15; cf. Mal. 3:18; Mt 16:27; 19:28; Mt 24:30,31; 25:31; Lk. 22:20; 2Th 1:7,8; Re 1:7; 5:10; 19:6-20; 20:4)
“Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” (Mt. 13:43)
Isaiah 66 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. God is describing the destruction of the wicked at the end of the world. Special note about eating swine's flesh
Which is referring to battle of Armageddon preceding the the millennial reign of Christ in which the Lord sets up His temple and in which sacrifices and offerings are made, as described at length in Ezekiel. Note that in contrast to the destruction of the wicked at the end of the world in which fire comes down from Heaven to toast all the lost, (Rv. 20: the Lord is yet calling the Jews and Gentiles to worship, as souls who endured the tribulation and whom the saints rule over (who else do you think they rule over?):
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (Isaiah 66:15)
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:11-15)
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword [cf. by fire and by his sword] that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:15)
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Revelation 19:17-18) This battle is before the 1k year reign of Christ, during which the devil is bound.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Revelation 20:1-3)
Meanwhile, the Lord reigns on a reconstituted earth, who "shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young" (Isaiah 40:11) but rule over the unconverted that survived the great trib with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:27; 12:5; 19:15) this being a final test, since Christ shall reign while the devil is bound and will be loosed, revealing the heart of those who obeyed the Lord unwillingly. Who shall be effectively nuked then face the final judgment, for sentencing - not to determine there salvific status - which has its correspondence judgment the judgment seat of Christ at His return, , (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy. 4:1, 8; Revelation 11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4) and is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's displeasure) due to the manner of material one built the church with, which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff)
And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord. (Isaiah 66:19-21)
This sending of those escape of them unto the nations shall declare God's glory among the Gentiles, which does not describe the new heaven and new earth, but which results in Gentiles, some of whom during this time are compelled to obey,
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (Zechariah 14:16-18)
This feast, new moon and and sabbath keeping certainly does not described the heavenly Jerusalem, but instead the Lord's 1k year reign after the bloody battle of Armageddon, glory to God.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:7-15)
In contrast, wherever Scripture clearly speak of the next conscious reality for believers then it is with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would they “ever be with the Lord,” though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil. 3:7f)
And as stars differs from one another in glory, (1Cor. 15:41) it is not unreasonable to suppose that in eternity some saints might shine brighter than another, depending upon how single their eye was on earth, (Mt. 6:22) and how they responded to the light and grace they received. (Lk. 12:48)
That’s why Paul said “comfort one another” and “looking for our blessed hope”
These are words meant to give us well, comfort and hope.
The early church in Antioch did support the immanency of Christ’s return for his Church. There are no signs or preconditions for Christ’s return for his Church unlike the Second coming when Christ’s return on the Mount of Olives has been preceded by all the events in Revelation starting with the lamb’s (Christ) breaking open the seal judgments and unleashing God’s wrath.
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