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Andy Stanley’s tweet about the Bible is seductive and harmful: Can One's Personal Experience Supersede Scripture?
Christian Post ^ | 03/21/2022 | Mark Creech

Posted on 03/21/2022 8:37:27 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

The recent now-deleted tweet by Andy Stanley, son of famed pastor emeritus Charles Stanley of the First Baptist Church, Atlanta, reads:

“The Christian faith doesn’t rise and fall on the accuracy of 66 ancient documents. It rises and falls on the identity of a single individual: Jesus of Nazareth.”

Stanley’s tweet was taken from a sermon he preached on March 6 at Browns Bridge Church in Cumming, Georgia.

When first reading the tweet on social media, I was saddened and sickened. This kind of statement was all too familiar to me. I had often heard it made by the moderates and liberals who were in control of the Southern Baptist Convention back in the '80s. I had defended the faith against this kind of approach to the Scriptures in the Baptist Associations where I had served — a time when my support for the Bible as divine and totally without error was in the minority and marginalized.

This kind of doctrinal error is what conservatives worked and sacrificed to save the Southern Baptist Convention from and succeeded. Moreover, other denominations that embraced what Stanley was teaching ended up on the trash heap of spiritual impotence or blatant apostasy.

It was, therefore, quite painful for me to hear a prominent preacher with the considerable influence of Stanley, one who has affirmed his own belief in inerrancy, declare something so contrary to that affirmation.

Unfortunately, Andy Stanley’s view of the Bible is not uncommon today in many seminaries and various mainline denominations that were once faithful. It holds if one argues for the highest view of Scripture as the Church did in the past, then one is in danger of a form of idolatry, elevating the Bible above Jesus, and therefore, guilty of the sin of Bible worship. In other words, you can make the Bible even more important than Jesus. You can give the Bible a prominence the Lord himself didn’t give it.

This is a seductive and harmful argument for those who may not know any better. It’s really a departure from the doctrine handed down by the Church, which has always maintained Christ, the Living Word, so identified himself with the Written Word, the Holy Scriptures, that no teacher can diminish the authority of one without also equally diminishing the authority of the other.

No one ever held a higher view of Scripture than Jesus did. In fact, over and again, Jesus encouraged everyone to judge his entire person and work by what the Scriptures said. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus declared he didn’t come to oppose or supersede the Scriptures, but to fulfill them exactly — completely — to fulfill every “jot and tittle” (Mt. 5:17-20).

Years ago, after leaving the pastorate to become the Christian Action League’s executive director, I joined a church where a man came before the congregation as a pastoral candidate. First, the candidate made a general statement about his doctrinal beliefs and church polity and then fielded questions from the audience.

One statement the candidate made was a red flag for me. He said he believed Southern Baptists had elevated the Bible above Jesus. So, before the entire church, I asked him to please explain what he meant.

To the point of embarrassment, the candidate kept avoiding a direct answer to the question by talking about things that weren’t pertinent. When he finally got around to addressing it, he did so in vague generalities, which essentially amounted to no answer at all.

At last, I sought to pin him down and asked: “Please tell us plainly. Do you believe the Bible is the infallible and inerrant Word of God? Yes or No?” His response was honest, but revealing when he replied, “No, I don’t.”

At this point, the candidate became very angry and began to attack my person with insults, declaring he believed the Bible as much as me. I responded that not only did he not believe the Bible as much as me, but he didn’t believe it as much as the people in that church. I then said to him, “You believe the Bible contains the Word of God, but you don’t believe it’s all the Word of God. Correct?” He acknowledged my assessment of his beliefs was accurate.

“Well, I agree with the candidate,” one lady said as she jumped to her feet to defend him. “He’s right! I think our denomination has wrongly given more prominence to the Scriptures than to Jesus.” To which I replied to her, “Please tell me how any of us can know anything authoritative about Jesus outside of the Bible?”

The candidate then replied, “I know! By experience!”

“Experience?” I responded. “And by what standard shall we measure the reality or truth of one’s experience without a Bible that does not err, and is authoritative in everything?” I asked. “How can we tell whether our experience is from God or the devil? Are we to believe our experience can never lead us astray — that our experience will never lead us to a counterfeit Christ?”

No one said anything further and the candidate withdrew his name for consideration, saying he could never be in a church with someone like me. Others, however, argued that I had just saved the church from many troubles and possible failure.

The crux of the matter is abundantly clear for those willing to think and look to the Scriptures. What Andy Stanley espouses is not what Jesus believed and taught about Scriptural authority. Let’s not forget Jesus Himself submitted to the Scriptures. Our Lord so identified Himself and his ministry with Scripture that he affirmed to the degree that one accepts the Scriptures is the degree to which one may know Him.

It should trouble us greatly anytime someone holds a different view of the Written Word than the one held by the Living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ. It ultimately leads to making our own opinions, beliefs and experiences the authority rather than God’s revelation. Such only leads to error, compromise, and a falling away from the faith.


Rev. Mark H. Creech is Executive Director of the Christian Action League of North Carolina, Inc. He was a pastor for twenty years before taking this position, having served five different Southern Baptist churches in North Carolina and one Independent Baptist in upstate New York.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: andystanley; bible; scripture
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To: Cronos
“The first editions of both the KJV and the Luther bible had the Deuterocanonical books”

Luther specifically stated in the preface to his Bible regarding the apocrypha- “ These books are not held equal to the Scriptures, but are useful and good to read.”

81 posted on 03/22/2022 6:57:30 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: BrandtMichaels

Stop! You are hyper offended because I don’t believe your guys interpretation. What is wrong with that? The link I gave you was very thorough and scholarly as to why that popular story is wrong. Did you even bother to read it? I gave you a common sense basic reading as to why I think it is wrong. Neither of those did even bother to say what you disagreed with. You just go nuts attacking me, ranting about my wealth, my concern for my wealth.


82 posted on 03/22/2022 7:12:20 AM PDT by BiglyCommentary
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To: Cronos; Old Yeller
"Matt. 6:19-20 – Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 – lay up your treasure."

That is not what he asked. Allusions are not quotes, while simply quotes themselves is not the same as being referred to as Scripture, which only writings from the Hebrew canon were.

Examination of some Proffered “references” to texts from deuterocanonical (apocryphal) books in the New Testament

Proffered “references” to texts from deuterocanonical (apocryphal) books in the New Testament which Catholics wrongly contend (see linked page) were removed from a settled canon by Martin Luther. However, the reality is that what is meant by a reference is often misleadingly thought to be a quote or something that would qualify as a citation when at best it may only be a similar referenced statement or ossible allusion. And none of the proffered references here nor that I have seen from the deuteros are actual quotations, and the rare few that are close are also found in the Hebrew canon, as is often the case with many other texts presented as references.

Moreover, none of the alleged references to the deuteros are called “Scripture” or “it is written,” “the Lord/God said,” “the prophet said,” nor have any like authoritative attribution as can be seen in multitudinous actual quotes of the OT in the NT below.

Only texts from the Hebrew canon are quoted and referred to as Scripture, or are called “it is written,” “the Lord/God said” or similar, and given authoritative attribution in the New Testament.

Note however, that simply quoting an isolated statement does not necessarily mean that the source text from which it came was inspired, since Paul even quoted a statement he attributed to a pagan (Acts 17:28) and Jude invoked a prophetic statement by Enoch. (Jude 1: 14) As with references to the deuteros these are never called Scripture. And the wholly God-inspired books were established as being so essentially due to their endured profound Heavenly qualities and attestations, as like men of God were.

And as regarding the use of the words “quotes” and “references,” I will provide what one source partly provides on the matter:

A quotation is a direct citation of an OT passage that is clearly recognizable by its clear and unique verbal parallelism. Many of these quotations are introduced with an introductory formula, such as “that what was spo ken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled” (Matt. 2:15) or “it is written” (Rom. 3:4) and other similar expressions. Other citations without such introductory indicators are so obviously parallel to an OT text that it is clear that a quotation is being made (e.g., see Gal. 3:6; Eph. 6:3)...There is, however, debate about whether or not writers like Paul adapt quotations and intersp erse their own wording or merely quote various OT texts in unaltered form.

2 It is likely that he does both at various points. It may sometimes be difficult to know when there is a direct unaltered quotation or when authors are clearly citing the OT Hebre w, since there is room for debate about when a Greek translation is “literal” or not. It needs to be recalled that it is often impossible to translate a word or expression in exactly the equivalent way from the source language into the receptor language. When the Greek Septuagint is the source of citations, it is still hard to know how much Paul, for example, may be altering the reference, since he may be citing from different forms, proto - revisions or variant textual traditions of the Septuagint, some of which may no longer be extant. Nevertheless, that he sometimes does alter his quotations is highly probable. One writer has counted 295 separate quotations of the OT in the New (including quotations with and without formulas). In Paul, for example, there are about one - hundred quotations, the majority of which come, to one degree or another from an OT text most resembling the Greek Septuagint...

In contrast to quotations, there is, on the other hand, greater debate about the definition of an “allusion” and the criteria by which one can discern an allusion. Accordingly, commentators differ about how many allusions there are in the entire NT. The count goes anywhere from around 600 allusions to 1,650 and even up to about 4,100. 5 In the book of Revelation, for example, where there are no formal quotations, the tally of allusions goe s anywhere from 394 (UBS 3 ) to 635 (NA 26 ) up to 1,000. 6 The wide disparity in the calculation is due to the disparity in how scholars define an allusion. To make matters more complicated, most commentators acknowledge that the validity of allusions must be judged along a spectrum of virtually certain, probable, and possible allusions, the latter being essentially equivalent to “echoes.”... In contrast to a quotation of the OT, which is a direct reference, allusions are indirect references (i.e., the OT wording is not reproduced directly as in a quotation). Some believe that an allusion must consist of a reproduction from the OT passage of a unique combination of at least three words or so. While this may be a good rule of thumb, it remains possible that fewer than three words or even an idea may be an allusion. The telltale key to discerning an allusion is that of recognizing an incomparable or unique parallel in wording, syntax or in concept or in a cluster of motifs in the same order or structure. When both unique wording (verbal coherence) and theme are found, the proposed allusion takes on greater probability. Recognizing allusions is like interpretation: there are degrees of probability and possibility in any attempt to identify an allusion. (http://www.theofil.nu/files/Beale%20-%20CriteriaForQuotesAndAllusions.pdf)

Assertion:

NT text:

Deuterocanonical text:

Hebrew Canonical Text:

Correspondence:

Matt. 6:7 references Ecclesiasticus 7:14 [Sirach]

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. (Matthew 6:7)

Use not many words in a multitude of elders, and make not much babbling when thou prayest. (Sirach 7:14)

And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made. (1 Kings 18:26)

Sirach 7:14 is an admonition, yet “many words/babbling” is not the same as vain repetitions of words as the heathen do under the premise that such will obtain the request, which 1 Kings 18:26 examples, but the latter is not an admonition, and lacks that form.

Neither is a quote or paraphrase, but Matthew 6:7 provides some expression of both. 1 Kings 18:26 most precisely conforms to what Matthew 6:7 reproves, while Sirach 7:14 partly conforms in basic thought and form but is lacking in fullness of what is reproved. It cannot be shown that Matthew 6:7 alludes to Sirach but the former most directly reproves 1 Kings 18:26 without referencing it.

● Matt. 23:37 references 2 Esdras 1:30

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. (Matthew 23:37,38)

I gathered you together, as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings: but now, what shall I do unto you? I will cast you out from my face. (2 Esdras 1:30)

And the Lord God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling place: But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy. (2 Chronicles 36:15-16)

Principle:

2 Esdras 1:30 is a statement addressing Israel of what God did in gathering as a hen, contrasted with the punishment He will do (cast you out from my face), while Matthew 23:37,38 is a statement addressing Jerusalem as representing the nation, of what Christ yearned to do in gathering them as a hen and of punishment that will follow (house is left unto you desolate)while 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 expresses all this.

Neither is a quote or paraphrase but 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 shares the words of of a hen gathering her chickens and foretells of judgment, with 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 describing what Matthew 23:37,38 and 2 Esdras 1:30 poetically express, and the latter can be said to be an allusion to Matthew in concept of attitude and punishment by God due to impenitence, while the latter verses allude to what 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 expansively describes as regards the impenitence of the people to Divine appeal. 2 Esdras 1:30 has some correspondence to 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 and both have correspondence to Matthew 23:37,38 in allusion.

● Matt. 27:43 references Wisdom 2:15-16

He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. (Matthew 27:43)

He is grievous unto us even to behold: for his life is not like other men's, his ways are of another fashion. We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father. Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him. For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies. (Wisdom 2:15-18)

All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. (Psalms 22:7-8)

It is actually Wisdom 2:18 that has correspondence of the principle that God delivers the just which principle the unbelieving crowdin Matthew 27:43b expresses, but it is Psalms 22:7-8 that actually prophecies and describes this, and is what Matthew 27:43 references..

● Luke 6:31 references Tobit 4:15,16

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. (Luke 6:30-31)

Do that to no man which thou hatest: drink not wine to make thee drunken: neither let drunkenness go with thee in thy journey. Give of thy bread to the hungry, and of thy garments to them that are naked; and according to thine abundance give alms: and let not thine eye be envious, when thou givest alms.
(Tobit 4:15-16)

Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? (Isaiah 58:7)

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord. (Leviticus 19:18)

Tobit 4:15 states the converse (do not do”) of Luke 6:31 and which is also how it is usually found in some other religions and is different than “do ye also,” for it is proactive rather than restrictive at face value. And the proactive sense of Luke 6:31 finds correspondence in Leviticus 19:18, that of “love thy neighbor as thyself.”

Luke 6:31 thus does not reference Tobit 4:15, Meanwhile Isaiah 58:7 is what is quite similar to Tobit 4:16a. And while both expresses of some of what Luke 6:30 in essence entails, yet Luke is different than Tobit (goods versus bread) and excludes greediness in a different way (withholding versus repossession), and overall does not evidence actually referencing Tobit,

In essence Luke 6:30-31 covers what both the above texts require, but is not actually referencing either but confirms what they teach.

● Luke 14:13 references Tobit 4:7

But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. (Luke 14:13-14)

Give alms of thy substance; and when thou givest alms, let not thine eye be envious, neither turn thy face from any poor, and the face of God shall not be turned away from thee. (Tobit 4:7)

Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine: And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates. (Deuteronomy 16:13-14)

He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord; and that which he hath given will he pay him again. (Proverbs 19:17)

Luke 14:13-14 exhorts what was required under the law in feasts, and promises recompense which Proverbs 19:17 also assures, but Luke distinctly places it at the resurrection of the just (versus the unjust, which is separated by 1,000 years: Revelation 20:6-15), while Tobit 4:7 exhorts alms-giving, and promises mercy in response. It does not mention feasts, nor recompense at the resurrection, and is more similar to Proverbs 19:17 in this aspect, but exhorting in principle what Deuteronomy 16:13-14 required as does Luke 14:13-14. However, it is the latter which references feasts for souls which Deuteronomy required such as for the the fatherless and the widow, and with all 3 sources promising recompenses, which Proverbs most distinctly promises. A correspondence of allusion to both can be seen in Luke 14:13-14 but which is not directly referencing them.

● John 10:22 references 1 Maccabees 4:59

And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch. (John 10:22-23)

Moreover Judas and his brethren with the whole congregation of Israel ordained, that the days of the dedication of the altar should be kept in their season from year to year by the space of eight days, from the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, with mirth and gladness. (1 Maccabees 4:59)


John 10:22-23 merely alludes to Jews engaging in a historical feast which 1 Maccabees 4:59 describes, which the Lord used to evangelize. There is no reference to the latter as Scripture or even as any source of Divine inspiration validating this, but 1 Maccabees is one historical source that is corespondent to John 10:22-23.

● Rom. 9:21 references Wisdom 15:7

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (Romans 9:21)

For the potter, tempering soft earth, fashioneth every vessel with much labour for our service: yea, of the same clay he maketh both the vessels that serve for clean uses, and likewise also all such as serve to the contrary: but what is the use of either sort, the potter himself is the judge. (Wisdom 15:7)

O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. (Jeremiah 18:6)

Wisdom 15:7 expresses what the potter does while Romans 9:21 asks the rhetorical question as whether the potter can do so, as does Jeremiah 18:6, which shows the most correspondence and allusion o it.

● Rom. 11:34 references Wisdom 9:13

For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? (Romans 11:34)

Wis 9:13 For what man is he that can know the counsel of God? or who can think what the will of the Lord is?

Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? (Isaiah 40:13-14)

Isaiah 40:13-14 expresses most directly and fully what Romans 11:34 expresses.

● 2Cor. 9:7 references Ecclesiasticus 35:9

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. (2 Corinthians 9:7)

In all thy gifts shew a cheerful countenance, and dedicate thy tithes with gladness. (Sirach 35:9)

Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering. (Exodus 25:2)

Sirach 35:9-10 expresses the most direct correspondence of allusion to 2 Corinthians 9:6-7, though no mention is made of it or any other source of this Truth.

● Heb. 1:3 references Wisdom 7:26

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Hebrews 1:3)

For she [wisdom] is the brightness of the everlasting light, the unspotted mirror of the power of God, and the image of his goodness. (Wisdom 7:26)

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Colossians 1:15)

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:6)

Wisdom 7:26 expresses the most direct correspondence to Hebrews 1:3a, though no mention is made of it or any other source of this Truth.

● Heb. 11:35 references 2 Maccabees 7:7

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: (Hebrews 11:35)

So when the first was dead after this number, they brought the second to make him a mocking stock: and when they had pulled off the skin of his head with the hair, they asked him, Wilt thou eat, before thou be punished throughout every member of thy body? But he answered in his own language, and said, No. Wherefore he also received the next torment in order, as the former did. (2 Maccabees 7:7-8)


2 Maccabees 7:7-8 provides an example of what Hebrews 11:35 describes though no mention is made of the former or any other source of this Truth.

Partial complication of quotes of the OT (Hebrew canon) in the NT along with references to the word of God being written (hover mouse over ref. to see pop up of text).

Mat. 1:22; 2:5,15,17,18; 3:3; 4:4,6,7,10,14,15; 5:17,18,33,38,43; 8:4,17; 9:13; 11:10; 12:3,5,17-21,40,41; 13:14,15,35; 14:3,4,7-9;19:4,5,17-19; 21:4,5,13,16,42; 22:24,29,31,32,37,39,43,44; 23:35;24:15; 26:24,31,54,56; 27:9,10,35; Mark 1:2,44; 7:3,10; 9:12,13; 10:4,5; 11:17; 12:10,19,24,26 13:14; 14:21,47,49; 15:28; Lk. 2:22,23.24; 3:4,5,6; 4:4,6-8,10,12,16,17,18,20,25-27; 5:14; 7:27; 8:10; 10:26,27; 16:29,31; 18:20,31; 19:46; 20:17,18, 28,37,42,43; 22:37; 23:30; 24:25.27,32,44,45,46; Jn. 1:45; 2:17,22; 3:14; 5:39,45-47; 6:31,45; 7:19,22,23,38,42,51,52; 8:5,17; 9:26; 10:34,35; 12:14,15,38-41; 15:25; 17:12; 19:24,28,36,37; 20:9,31; 21:24; Acts 1:20; 2:16-21,25-28,34,35; 3:22,23,25; 4:11,25,26; 7:3,7,27,28,32,33,37,40,42,43,49,50,53; 8:28,30,32,33; 10:43;13:15,27,29,33,39; 15:5,15-17,21; 17:2,11; 18:13.24,28; 21:20,24; 22:12; 23:3,5; 24:14; 26:22; 28:23,26,27; Rom 1:2,17; 2:10-21,31; 4:3,7,17,18,23,24; 5:13; 7:1-3,7,12,14,16; 8:4,36; 9:4,9,12,13,15,17,25-29,33; 10:11,15,19; 11:2-4,8,9,26,27; 12:19,20; 13:8-10; 14:11; 15:3,4,9-12,21; 16:16,26,27; 1Cor. 1:19,31; 2:9; 3:19,20; 4:6; 6:16; 7:39; 9:9,10; 10:7,11,26,28; 14:21,34; 15:3,4,32,45,54,55; 2Cor. 1:13; 2:3,4; 3:7,15; 4:13; 6:2;16; 7:12; 8:15; 9:9; 10:17; 13:1; Gal. 3:6,8,10-13; 4:22,27,30; 5:14; Eph. 3:3,4; (cf. 2Pt. 3:16); Eph. 4:8; 5:31; 6:2,3; (cf. Dt. 5:16); Col. 4:16; 1Thes. 5:27; 1Tim. 5:18; 2Tim. 3:16,17; Heb. 1:5,7-13; 2:5-8,12,13; 3:7-11,15; 4:3,4,7; 5:5,6; 6:14; 7:17,21,28; 8:5,8-13; 9:20; 10:5-916,17,28,30,37; 11:18; 12:5,6,12,26,29; 13:5,6,22; James 2:8,23; 4:5; 1Pet. 1:16,24,25; 2:6,7,22; 3:10-12; 5:5,12; 2Pet. 1:20,21; 2:22; 3:1,15,16; 1Jn. 1:4; 2:1,7,8,12,13,21; 5:13; Rev. 1:3,11,19; 2:1,8,12,18; 3:1,7,12,14; 14:13; 19:9; 21:5; 22:6,7;10,18,19

Glory to God.

at 4:37 PM
83 posted on 03/22/2022 7:15:56 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: Cronos; Long Jon No Silver
"Simply that the written word speaks about the Word but is not the Word. It is to be revered, but it is not the subject or relic to worshipped in and of itself. -- yes!! "

But the standard that defines who is worth of worship must itself by wholly inspired by the same.

And aside from Himself, you will not find any revelation, writing or institution or created being exalted and used and invoked BY GOD like as Scripture is.

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. (Psalms 138:2)

The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalms 19:7-11)

This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. (Joshua 1:8)

And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan. And Shaphan carried the book to the king, and brought the king word back again, saying, All that was committed to thy servants, they do it. (2 Chronicles 34:15-16) And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes. And the king commanded Hilkiah, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Abdon the son of Micah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king’s, saying, Go, enquire of the Lord for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the wrath of the Lord that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the Lord, to do after all that is written in this book. (2 Chronicles 34:19-21)

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4)" Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. (Matthew 4:7) Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matthew 4:10)

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (Matthew 22:29)

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, (Luke 24:44-45)

84 posted on 03/22/2022 7:16:04 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Can One's Personal Experience Supersede Scripture?

Of course they can, and quite often they do!


It's sad that a lot of these experiences are NOT from GOD; but from the DECEIVER!!

85 posted on 03/22/2022 7:38:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BiglyCommentary
Likewise...


Acts 17:11-12

Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, along with quite a few prominent Greek women and men.

86 posted on 03/22/2022 7:45:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: HKMk23

yup


87 posted on 03/22/2022 7:46:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Long Jon No Silver; Cronos

Now if we could just ignore what an ‘apparition’ tells us if it is NOT found in the Book that Rome assembled so long ago...


88 posted on 03/22/2022 7:47:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SeekAndFind

Charlatan


89 posted on 03/22/2022 7:47:54 AM PDT by wardaddy (Free Republic has gone insane but it's fun)
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To: BrandtMichaels
to one of those you disparaged

So now it disparaging someone if you say you disagree with their version of something because you did your own research? I'll have to cut this page of Acts out and toss it in the shredder.

Act 17:10-11 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

"More noble" because they just didn't believe anything someone said but made sure it was so.

90 posted on 03/22/2022 7:49:40 AM PDT by BiglyCommentary
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To: Elsie

I clicked post button and then saw you saying the same thing.


91 posted on 03/22/2022 7:50:54 AM PDT by BiglyCommentary
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To: Cronos
"To your many references of Canonicty – its just all circular. You discount the historical fluidity of the Jewish canon through the generations and among the differing sects as not worthy of discussions.... Then we learn of these Essenes who were quite separated from the Hellenistic Jews and we learn more of what was not known – or could be known – only assumed..."

Rather, I do not discount the historical fluidity of the Jewish canon in the 1st century, nor even now (among churches) - but as shown you and ignored, I substantiated* that what is best evidenced is that the Palestinian canon is what Christ and the NT church expressly referred to as Scripture, "it is written/God said."

" you have to pick a specific point in history to accomplish what Luther did- and that is purely subjectivism."

Which is simply more parroting of ignorance of what Luther accomplished, as if Luther was some maverick in judging some books as not being Scripture, versus being in solid company with other Catholic scholars, and as if he set the canon for Protestantism, versus his canon being expressly his own private judgment which he said others need not follow, and which Protestantism did not, and as if he did not even separately include apocryphal books in his translation, which he did.

" It becomes purely subjective down through the centuries on the who decides canonical validity. Is one man better than councils or hundreds of years acceptance?"

Not one man in either case, as councils affirmed what they saw as being the consensus of the faithful, while we have our own consensus which is more weighty as foremost non-compelled readers of Scripture, while Catholic councils err, including with the the novel and unScriptural premise that they cannot err in such decrees as that of the canon. And the church actually began via the consensus of the faithful in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)

For instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.) of ensured perpetual magisterial veracity as per Rome (and basically in primary cults).

*

"In all likelihood Josephus' twenty-two-book canon was the Pharisaic canon, but it is to be doubted that it was also the canon of all Jews in the way that he has intended." (Timothy H. Lim: The Formation of the Jewish Canon; Yale University Press, Oct 22, 2013. P. 49) By the first century, it is clear that the Pharisees held to the twenty-two or twenty-four book canon, and it was this canon that eventually became the canon of Rabbinic Judaism because the majority of those who founded the Jewish faith after the destruction of Jerusalem were Pharisees. The Jewish canon was not directed from above but developed from the "bottom-up." (Timothy H. Lim, University of Edinburgh: Understanding the Emergence of the Jewish Canon, ANCIENT JEW REVIEW, December 2, 2015)

Knowledgeable [if liberal] New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman also finds,

Most scholars agree that by the time of the destruction of the second Temple in 70 C.E. most Jews accepted the final three-part canon of the Torah, Nevi'im, and Kethuvim.... This was a twenty-four-book canon that came to be attested widely in Jewish writings of the time; eventually the canon was reconceptualized and renumbered an that it became the thirty-nine books of the Christian Old Testament. But they are the same books, all part of the canon of Scripture. (Ehrman, The Bible, 377)

The evidence clearly supports the theory that the Hebrew canon was established well before the late first century AD, more than likely as early as the fourth century BC and certainly no later than 150 BC. A major reason for this conclusion comes from the Jews themselves, who from the fourth century BC onward were convinced that "the voice of God had ceased to speak directly." (Ewert, FATMT, 69) In other words, the prophetic voices had been stilled. No word from God meant no new Word of God. Without proph-ets, there can be no scriptural revelation. Concerning the Intertestamental Period (approximately four hundred years between the close of the Old Testament and the events of the New Testament)

Concerning the Intertestamental Period (approximately four hundred years between the dose of the Old Testament and the events of the New Testament) Ewert observes,

In 1 Maccabees 14:41 we read of Simon who is made leader and priest "until a trustworthy prophet should rise," and earlier he speaks of the sorrow in Israel such "as there has not been since the prophets ceased to appear to them." "The prophets have fallen asleep," complains the writer of 2 Baruch (85:3). Books that were written after the prophetic period had closed were thought of as lying outside the realm of Holy Scripture. (Ewen, FATMT, 70)

Bruce affirms that The books of the Hebrew Bible are traditionally twenty-four in number, arranged in three divisions." (Bruce, CS, 29) The three divisions are the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. Here are the main categories of the Hebrew canon found in modern editions of the Jewish Old Testament.

The Law (Torah): Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy . The Prophets (Nebhim): Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings (former prophets), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, The Twelve (latter prophets) , The Writings (Kethubhim or Hagi-ographa [Greek]): Psalms, Proverbs, Job (poetical books), Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Esther, Ecclesi-astes (Five Rolls [MegillothD, Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah, Chronicles (historical books)

Christ's Witness to the Old Testament Canon

Luke 24:44: In the Upper Room Jesus told the disciples "that all things most needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me" (Asv). With these words Jesus indicated "a threefold categorization of the sacred Scriptures [the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings), the third part of which is identified by its longest and presumably most important book, the Psalms." (Ehrman, The Bible, 377)

John 10:31-36; Luke 24:44: Jesus disagreed with the oral traditions of the Pharisees (Mark 7, Matt. 15), but not with their concept of the Hebrew canon.

Luke 11:51 (also Matt. 23:35): "From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah." With these words Jesus confirms his witness to the extent of the Old Testament canon. Abel was the first martyr recorded in Scripture (Gen. 4:8) and Zechariah the last mar-tyr to be named in the Hebrew Old Testament order, having been stoned while prophesying to the people "in the court of the house of the LORD." (2 Chr. 24:21). Genesis was the first book in the Hebrew canon and Chronicles the last. Jesus, then, was basically saying, "from Genesis to Chronicles," or, according to our order, "from Genesis to Malachi," thereby confirming the divine authority and inspiration of the entire Hebrew canon. (Bruce, BP, 88)

Philo "Around the time of Christ, the Jewish philosopher Philo made a three-fold distinction in the Old Testament speaking of the '[1] laws and [2) oracles delivered through the mouth of prophets, and [3) psalms and anything else which fosters and perfects knowledge and piety (De Vita Contemplativa 3.25)." (Geisler and Nix, BFGU, 103) (Last 10 excerpts above transcribed from "Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World," By Josh McDowell, Sean McDowell, pp. 34-36)

"The term "apocrypha" refers to those books which are found in the Hellenistic Jewish Bible canon of Alexandria, Egypt, but not in the Palestinian Jewish canon . The Hellenistic canon was preserved by the Christian church in the Septuagint and Vulgate Bibles, and the Palestinian canon was handed down in the form of the traditional Hebrew Bible..."

"The desire to supplement Scripture was part of a general tendency in the Greco-Roman period toward 'rewritten Bible.' In such works the authors, out of reverence for the Bible, sought to extend the biblical tradition and often applied it to the issues of their own day. ..."

1 Baruch "is a hortatory work which was treated as a supplement to Jeremiah. It is a pseudepigraphon, purporting to have been written by Baruch, the scribe of Jeremiah... The first part had to have been written by the onset of the first century B.C.E., but the date of the second half cannot be established. It may postdate the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 C.E." From Text to Tradition: A History of Second Temple and Rabbinic Judaism, pp. 12-,121, 123,125, 126, Lawrence H Schiffman, PH D, Sol Scharfstein, Ethel and Irvine Edelman Professor of Hebrew and Judaic Studies; KTAV Publishing House, Inc., 1991)

The latter aspect means that Baruch (along with some other books of the apocrapha) may not have been written until after the completion of the Jewish LXX in 132 BC.

Other researchers also state,

By the first century, it is clear that the Pharisees held to the twenty-two or twenty-four book canon, and it was this canon that eventually became the canon of Rabbinic Judaism because the majority of those who founded the Jewish faith after the destruction of Jerusalem were Pharisees. The Jewish canon was not directed from above but developed from the "bottom-up." Ancient Jews did not have a council in the way that the Christian did, and while the Temple in Jerusalem kept some scrolls, it did not do so to prescribe the books of the canon. (Timothy Lim. University of Edinburgh; https://www.ancientjewreview.com/articles/2015/12/1/understanding-the-emergence-of-the-jewish-canon)

[Josephus] also limits his books to those written between the time of Moses and Artaxerxes, thus eliminating some apocryphal books, observing that "(Jewish) history hath been written since Artaxerxes very particularly but hath not been esteemed of the like authority with the former by our forefathers, because there hath not been an exact succession of prophets since that time."

Also in support of the Jewish canon excluding the apocrypha we also have Philo, the Alexandrian Jewish philosopher (20 BC-AD 40) who never quoted from the Apocrypha as inspired, though he prolifically quoted the Old Testament and recognized the threefold division

While other have different opinions, in the Tosfeta (supplement to the Mishnah) it states, "...the Holy Spirit departed after the death of Haggai, Zecharaiah, and Malachi. Thus Judaism defined the limits of the canon that was and still is accepted within the Jewish community." Once that limit was defined, there was little controversy. Some discussion was held over Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs, but the core and bulk of the OT was never disputed. (Tosfeta Sota 13.2, quoted by German theologian Leonhard Rost [1896-1979], Judaism Outside the Hebrew Canon. Nashville: Abingdon, 1971; http://www.tektonics.org/lp/otcanon.html)

The available historical evidence indicates that in the Jewish mind a collection of books existed from at least 400 B.C. in three groups, two of them fluid, 22 (24 by another manner of counting) in number, which were considered by the Jews from among the many other existing books as the only ones for which they would die rather than add to or take away from them, books which they considered veritably from God...The Apocrypha are not included. (http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/rev-henry/11_apocrypha_young.pdf)

Those who bring more than twenty-four books [the standard number in the Hebrew Bible[ bring confusion [Hebrew mehumah] into their house.(Qoh. Rab. 12.12 - Rabbinic commentary (Kohelet Rabbah, in the Midrash Rabbot) on Ecclesiastes (kohelet; qohelet) 12:12, cited in "The New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical Books," by Michael David Coogan, Marc Zvi Brettler, p. 453)

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished," saith God; 'Twenty-four books have I written for you; take heed to add none thereto.' Wherefore? Because of making many books there is no end. He who reads one verse not written in the twenty-four books is as though he had read in the 'outside books'; he will find no salvation there. Behold herein the punishment assigned to him who adds one book to the twenty-four. How do we know that he who reads them wearies himself in vain? Because it says, 'much study is a weariness of the flesh' (Eccl. xii. 12), from which follows, that the body of such a one shall not arise from the dust, as is said in the Mishnah (Sanh. x. 1), 'They who read in the outside books have no share in the future life'" (Num. R. xiv. 4; ed. Wilna, p. 117a; compare also Pesi?. R. ix. a and Yer. Sanh. xxviii. a. (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3259-bible-canon). Note that rabbinic commentary often contains much superstition and nonsense, but historical statements such as these testify to a Jewish 24 book canon (which combines many books listed seperately in the 39 book O.T. Protestant canon) being held as authoratitive).

Although some apocryphal books contain a few texts which correspond to New Testament ones, this is also true of some works which are found outside the apocrypha, which the Bible sometimes quotes from. (Acts 17:28; Jude 1:14) Texts from the apocrypha were occasionally quoted in early church writings, and were considered worthy reading even if not included as Scripture, but the apocrypha was not accepted in such early O.T. lists as that of Melito (AD 170) bishop of the church in Sardis, an inland city of Asia Minor, who gives a list of the Hebrew canon, minus Esther, and makes no mention of any of the apocryphal/deuterocanonical books: ks. (http://www.bible-researcher.com/eusebius.html)

Cyril of Jerusalem (d. circa. 385 AD) exhorts his readers “Of these read the two and twenty books, but have nothing to do with the apocryphal writings. Study earnestly these only which we read openly in the Church. Far wiser and more pious than thyself were the Apostles, and the bishops of old time, the presidents of the Church who handed down these books. Being therefore a child of the Church, trench thou not upon its statutes. And of the Old Testament, as we have said, study the two and twenty books, which, if thou art desirous of learning, strive to remember by name, as I recite them.” (http://www.bible-researcher.com/cyril.html)

His lists supports the canon adopted by the Protestants, combining books after the Hebrew canon and excludes the apocrypha, though he sometimes used them, as per the standard practice by which the apocrypha was printed in Protestant Bibles, and includes Baruch as part of Jeremiah.

Likewise Rufinus:

38.But it should also be known that there are other books which are called not "canonical" but "ecclesiastical" by the ancients: 5 that is, the Wisdom attributed to Solomon, and another Wisdom attributed to the son of Sirach, which the Latins called by the title Ecclesiasticus, designating not the author of the book but its character. To the same class belong the book of Tobit and the book of Judith, and the books of Maccabees.

With the New Testament there is the book which is called the Shepherd of Hermas, and that which is called The Two Ways 6 and the Judgment of Peter.7 They were willing to have all these read in the churches but not brought forward for the confirmation of doctrine. The other writings they named "apocrypha,"8 which they would not have read in the churches. These are what the fathers have handed down to us, which, as I said, I have thought it opportune to set forth in this place, for the instruction of those who are being taught the first elements of the Church and of the Faith, that they may know from what fountains of the Word of God they should draw for drinking. (http://www.bible-researcher.com/rufinus.html)

And that the 66 book Prot canon is the most ancient is implicitly affirmed in Catholicism: “the protocanonical books of the Old Testament correspond with those of the Bible of the Hebrews, and the Old Testament as received by Protestants.” “...the Hebrew Bible, which became the Old Testament of Protestantism.” (The Catholic Encyclopedia>Canon of the Old Testament; htttp://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm) The Protestant canon of the Old Testament is the same as the Palestinian canon. (The Catholic Almanac, 1960, p. 217) More on this here.,


92 posted on 03/22/2022 7:52:55 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: Cronos
"Why do non Christians like dan simply parrot the same nonsensical anti Christian propaganda as in your posts, Your polemics and long posts of fluff prove only that you can type."

Rather it is because my posts as referred to are not nonsensical anti Christian propaganda but substantiate refute such parroted propaganda from Rome. Give it up.

93 posted on 03/22/2022 7:52:59 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: BiglyCommentary

...easier for a rope ...???

Not on page 36 here

http://buffaloriverforge.com/peshitta/NT%20Peshitta%207th%20Ed%20Plain%20Text%20Unnoted.pdf


94 posted on 03/22/2022 7:57:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
Perhaps he could instruct us on how we know about Jesus without those “66 ancient documents”.

Some are more 'ancient' than others...

 
 

NIV Matthew 2:5
"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:

NIV Matthew 4:1-11
1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

NIV Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Matthew 21:13
"It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "

NIV Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.

NIV Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

NIV Mark 7:6-7
6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

NIV Mark 9:11-13
11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

NIV Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "

NIV Mark 14:27
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

NIV Luke 4:17-19
17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

NIV Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

NIV Luke 18:31-33
31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33. On the third day he will rise again."

NIV Luke 20:17-18
17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

NIV Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

NIV Luke 22:37
It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

NIV Luke 24:44-47
44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

NIV John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."
 
NIV John 6:31
Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "

NIV John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

NIV John 12:14-16
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

NIV John 15:25
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'

NIV John 20:30-31
30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

NIV Acts 1:20
"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'

NIV Acts 7:42
But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?

NIV Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.

NIV Acts 13:32-33
32. "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
33. he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '

NIV Acts 15:15-18
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.

NIV Acts 23:5
Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "

NIV Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

NIV Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

NIV Romans 2:24
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

NIV Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."

NIV Romans 3:10-12
10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

NIV Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

NIV Romans 8:36
As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

NIV Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

NIV Romans 10:15
And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

NIV Romans 11:7-10
7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."

NIV Romans 11:26-27
26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

NIV Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

NIV Romans 14:11
It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

NIV Romans 15:7-12
7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."

NIV Romans 15:21
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --

NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

NIV Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

NIV Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

NIV Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

NIV Galatians 4:27
For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."

NIV Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"

NIV 1 Peter 1:15-16
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."



And now; for the Believers in Christ who may have wondered how much FAITH to place upon the Apostles written words...
 
NIV Luke 1:1-4
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
 
NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

NIV 1 John 2:12-14
12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

95 posted on 03/22/2022 7:59:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Cronos

Interesting data you’ve presented.

I wonder...

...are there any that predate these?

Like found in the OT first?


96 posted on 03/22/2022 8:01:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: gitmo

Well I sure TRIED to look it up.


97 posted on 03/22/2022 8:03:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: circlecity

What makes Athanasius a final authority on the canon of Scripture? The Tome of Damasus (AD 382) accepts all of the deuterocanonical OT books, including the ones you mention. What makes Athanasius’ authority superior to that of Pope Damasus?


98 posted on 03/22/2022 8:04:26 AM PDT by Campion (All we are saying is give peace a chance.)
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To: gitmo

Well I sure TRIED to look it up.


99 posted on 03/22/2022 8:06:47 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BiglyCommentary

Well I did read some of what you referenced, not all. My opinion the scripture is straightforward so wax and wane all you want. Better to accept it and work on self, recalling all scriptures on riches and wealth leads to ‘love of money=root of all evil’

Shall I hold the mirror up and ask if you clicked and listened to my links?


100 posted on 03/22/2022 8:08:30 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels ( )
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