| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
| this book? | or THIS Book? |
 |  |
If you die, extracting your sugary hand from the cookie jar of SIN, before you get a chance to ‘repent’ from it, you are TOAST!
—> If you die, extracting your sugary hand from the cookie jar of SIN, before you get a chance to ‘repent’ from it, you are TOAST!
Humans have no idea the depth of sins omission in their lives.
Just take “loving the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul…”
Anyone who thinks they will hold on to their salvation by their own effort is a fool.
Christ died to save sinners.
The great white Throne judgment is the Judgment of the saved, the lost, the great white Throne judgment is not a judgment seat for those who are entering heaven but those who are being condemned to hell
Oh?
Then just WHO are the Great and the Small?
Hebrews 10:26For if we SIN WILFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Let's repeat this a few more times so it can sink in...
DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE
DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE
DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE
DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE
Maybe a few more times will help?
DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE
DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE
DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE
DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE
Was that helpful for memory retention?
Once someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior, by faith, ALONE, they are then covered by Grace, AND THEIR PAST SINS ARE WIPED CLEAN. They are as innocent and pure as the freshly driven snow. They are blameless. They carry no sin. Then, they are expected to grow in Christ, and OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS, ABIDING IN HIS LOVE. The Holy Spirit will help them GROW. If they sin, they need to ask forgiveness and REPENT.
Grace only covers past sin, pal. And people who think they can commit whatever form of lawlessness (against the law of God) they want, and still think they are covered, are sorely mistaken. They will have chosen POORLY. OSAS is STILL a lie.
Ravi sinned willfully. There is no denying that. Even his own church admits that, and are very forthcoming and upfront about it. If Ravi died in unrepentant sin (and I'm not saying he did), he's in big trouble with God, because OSAS doesn't cover present and future sin, as Hebrews 10 CLEARLY demonstrates.
And, it's precisely why God hated the doctrine of the Nicolatians...
The doctrine and works of the Nicolatians came forth from a wrong interpretation of the grace of God that was preached by the apostles. They misused the Grace of God and the liberty in Christ to fulfill their carnal (sexual) lusts and desires.
They believed and said that a person is saved by grace and therefore it doesn’t matter how you live. By faith in Jesus Christ, the spirit of a person is saved, but since you are bound by the flesh, in which evil is present, you will always remain a sinner and always keep on sinning. You serve God through your spirit, but you keep serving your flesh and it’s lusts and desires during your life on earth...SOUND FAMILIAR? (taken from some random internet site)
👍
It will surprise me if imardmd1 spends andy effort explaining Hebrews 10 to you since being a dead soul not a live spirit you will not comprehend the teaching. Its a sort of pearls before swine thang dontchaknow,.
MhG...
I concluded it isn’t worth the time invested to respond to every see and say scripture posting.
It takes a long time,
the person isn’t educable
nor open to truth,
whatever you say is ignored...
THEN a whole new batch of scriptures is posted that moves the goal post.
THEN it circles back to the same thing over and over...
Someone seems angry.
Maybe you’d get a better response if you didn’t come across as so incredibly insulting and arrogant, and especially if you didn’t just assume what any of us believe and attack us with your strawmen.
Well, you would have at least. For you, I fear it’s too late; you have a reputation.
no one’s angry, LOL.
Good for you, but it doesn’t change that you look like you’re rageposting.
If you want to be taken more seriously, you might want to adjust your behavior so as to NOT come off like that.
I’m not as good at mixing in multi colors, borders, etc..., like Elsie. So, caps and red is basically it for me. Maybe you are reading more into it than there is?
I think it’s like casting pearls before swine. Some people are just not interested in the truth. Since I am not into pain (the fires of Hell) I chose the truth.
Do you suppose cultists get special training on circling back around like this? My guess would be, yes they do. 🤗
Murphs, that’s another logical fallacy. Inspired does not always mean literal, and I would hope you know that.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/figure-of-speech-fallacy
If you’re going to argue that Paul meant literal baptism in the exact same sense as he means Christian baptism—or even specifically Roman Catholic baptism—you have to offer more than just “Well, he said baptism!”
On top of that, metmom already answered your question about Bible translations; you just didn’t like the answer. That’s not just bringing up the poisoning the well fallacy again, but it’s also a loaded question fallacy.
And again, I say this as someone who agrees somewhat more with you than I do with metmom on this topic.
What it *looks* like from this end is that you’re either embarrassed or angry and you’re trying to save face by attempting to throw her own words back at her.
If that’s not the case, I would suggest that you adjust your posting because it’s not going to convince anyone if it looks like you’re just posting emotionally.
You need to think this over while I take the time to write t the answer that destroys our theory. Keep holding your breath,if you can. . . .
And you think that you're teaching me something. This is really hilarious!
More importantly, did you mean to address this to me?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.